With Scotland mathematically still in with a chance of winning the 2025 Guinness Six Nations tournament, Gregor Townsend has decided in his wisdom to select a 6:2 bench split once again. Undoubtedly, Townsend is chewing over the prospect of France picking a 7:1 split like they did against Italy, who were then demolished, and powering to the title.
Scotland last 10 games away from home against France
For the visit to Paris on Saturday night the starting XV is largely unchanged, a welcome form of consistency. Jack Dempsey drops out with a hamstring injury and Matt Fagerson replaces him at number 8, a move we saw at the start of the tournament.
The only real change is in the second row Gregor Brown is rewarded for a decent showing off the bench with the startup lock swapping places with Johnny Gray so far so good with the prospect of another French seven one bench turns end has opted for heft rather than Verve
The problem is that Scotland’s hopes, if you could call them that, rely on a massive victory over France, which means tries, and zip off the bench.
Scotland are not going to power through France no matter how many forwards they pick, while France’s skill on the counter-attack and Scotland’s generosity when isolated in the wider channels means that the 50+ point winning margin required is unlikely to begin with (as is Wales and Italy beating England and Ireland).
It’s a bench picked for safety, which while understandable, is no-one’s idea of a good time for a fixture that should be the highlight for attacking rugby in the tournament.
Jamie Dobie and Stafford McDowall are once again the backs, while the forward replacements feature a number of names yet to get a chance in the tournament in the shape of Edinburgh’s Ben Muncaster and Marshall Sykes.
So it’s safe to say we can put that potential result to one side, hope that at least it’s a good game to watch, and focus on what this tournament will tell us about Scotland in their current state.
Assuming England and Ireland win, Scotland are probably looking at finishing fourth, which seems to be our natural position when England are either half-decent or gifted an undeserved Calcutta Cup win. Looking from the start of the tournament, the most telling result is probably the capitulation to Ireland as it represents the continuation of the status quo. In our heads we think we are a top 2/3 team, mathematically we even have a chance to be come the end of Saturday night. But results like that one in the second round when we still had some hope point to a very soft underbelly and a lack of real winning progress under Gregor Townsend.
France: Ramos, Penaud, Fickou, Moefana, Bielle-Biarrey, Ntamack, Lucu; Gros, Mauvaka, Atonio, Flament, Guillard, Cros, Boudehent, Alldritt (capt).
Replacements: Marchand, Baille, Aldegheri, Auradou, Meafou, Jegou, Jelonch, Le Garrec.
Scotland: Blair Kinghorn, Darcy Graham, Huw Jones, Tom Jordan, Duhan Van der Merwe; Finn Russell (co-captain), Ben White; Pierre Schoeman, Dave Cherry, Zander Fagerson, Gregor Brown, Grant Gilchrist, Jamie Ritchie, Rory Darge (co-captain), Matt Fagerson.
Replacements: Ewan Ashman, Rory Sutherland, Will Hurd, Jonny Gray, Marshall Sykes, Ben Muncaster, Jamie Dobie, Stafford McDowall.
59 responses
Correct decision to drop Jonny Gray, he hasn’t been great. Our front row lack of depth is well documented but I think the second row isn’t far behind. The combination of Jonny Gray and Grant Gilchrist is a solid and safe pair of hands pairing but is a bit pedestrian, isn’t dynamic, powerful or frankly nasty enough for what is needed these days. I know injuries have forced the hand a bit with the lack of Scott Cummings but giving Gregor Brown and Marshall Sykes a go earlier in the tournament wouldn’t have been a bad thing.
Don’t like the 6:2 split, never have and never will. When we do it we always seem to get caught out by freak injuries to backs and end up with folk playing out of position. We have shown time and again that trying to fight fire with fire doesn’t work, we aren’t going to out muscle France upfront, we can’t out muscle anyone up front to be honest so we have to find a different way, and that is by using our backs who rival only France’s for being best in the 6N in my opinion.
Townsend has finally realised that Jonny Gray has contributed nothing in this tournament, he looked as if he was towing a caravan, was driven backwards in contact or knocked the ball on, it will be no benefit bringing him on as a replacement. Gregor Brown, although not an out & out second row & lighter, at least makes metres with ball in hand. Jack Dempsey is a big loss, our other back rows don’t have his energy & ability to break the gain line. Finally, surely Johnny Matthews would be a far better option off the bench than Ashman who has gone backwards this season but is still getting selected, it should be form over favourites every time.
The only way to beat France is to move the forwards around and tire them out. Jonny Gray is not going to do that. He can tackle, will be missed, the others need to step up, head down and fell them like trees on a firm surface. I think Toony had no choice, we have beaten France with fitness and mobility .
Ewan Ashman , is not quite at this usual standard. I am happy to be proved wrong !
Favourite over Form is Toonie’s mantra. Only changes it when his neck is on the line
Whatever happened to Olli kebble ?
Think he retired?
He plays for Oyonnax in the French league after leaving Glasgow last summer.
Last paragraph , well written though I do not entirely agree. Our worst moment was gifting England the match. It was not all down to Finn. Duhan could have got closer and that is just one example of complacancy. I would like to blame Toony , but you cannot coach attitude.
I wouldn’t read too much into the idea of players being “dropped” personally, more so given what just went on a matter of days ago.
The sport is played on the premise of an entire squad these days, use of the bench is massive I can see why there is a want to have the maturity of Gray (who has been nothing like as poor as some make out) on the bench, more so accounting for how raw and little experience these coming on will have at International level.
You have a point ‘Dropped’ feels like a word from the amateur era. Is Sam Skinner ‘dropped’ or Injured ! Does anyone know.
Injured as mentioned in Gregor Townsend’s press conference following the selection of the 23.
Thanks Iain: I never listen to Toony interviews. For all we have a big squad, we always seem to be missing the right man at the right moment. This game was made for him given his mobiity and european cup experience.
A bit quick to blame the subs,why not point the finger at the knackered souls left on the pitch who were on there knees praying to be sub’d.
Finn was rubbish again. Officiating is a joke as always. The sport won’t be taken seriously with this level of refereeing
They again chickened out of giving a red card against France
Do you think that an English referee , in charge of a match, that could have given England the championship was not on the mind of the officials. I think it was and they compensated to ensure they could not be criticised. They should probably not have been put in that position.
Had Scotland won and England benefitted , there would be a lot of , probably unfair, criticism of the referees. I strongly suspect, that had an influence. We were stuck mid-table , whatever happened. But for France and England , it was the championship or 2nd place and an English ref took charge. France had been making this known behind the scenes.
I just want to see good rugby and rugby to win the day. But that is just not happening , not as a Scotland fan.
once again our lack of power is there for all to see. We put in decent shift tonight but we will always be short on physicality against the best
Disappointing result, but a really good shift put in by everyone. At times we look world class, we’re not far off. I don’t think this is a coaching issue but just a lack of depth. We need more competition in the tight 5 to maintain the speed we’re playing at. Unfortunately our current situation is to keep tired players on replace them with significantly weaker subs. Townie needs to focus on front row and locks.
What a pleasant surprise Jordan has been, he really is good. Richie also had a great game.
I’ll be honest, I don’t mind losing games like that. Played with real intent and energy and it was a cracking game, why can’t we play like that all the time? Lot of tired guys in the second half and the bench is a drop off as we all know, but the French forwards were blowing too at the end. We were the better team for at least half of that game. Thought Jamie Ritchie was outstanding, something I’ve never really noticed about him before, he’s got very good hands, an excellent passer of the ball. Rusell and Kinghorn were good too, couple of mistakes but they weren’t stupid mistakes, trying to force things a bit maybe but on the whole did far more good than bad. Ashman is a liability, what has happened to him? France took their chances well, give them a sniff and they took it, but we did well to not give them too many sniffs. I can’t help but wonder what may have happened if Kinghorns try stood, it was a very marginal call. On the non red card, I’m torn, I agree that it wasn’t “in play” so shouldn’t be treated in the same way as an honest shoulder to the face in a tackle, it was malicious and I think warranted a red, but that said Ben White milked it and I f******hate players doing that.
Did he milk it ? You sure? Ever had a head but that you never expected ! The degree of danger was not high apparently. I give up .
Just read the planet rugby player ratings. A 4 for Russell, 6 for Jordan and 9 for Kinghorn 🤣🤣🤣
Just a lack of power from Scotland. Played some great rugby but again failing to convert chances.
Can a Scottish team at the level they play afford a player who takes risk upon risk. Maybe France,SA,NZ could but we need a No 10 who recognises that there are times when you are in the ascendancy and just need simple plays to get over the line.Great player, when hes good he’s very good but can’t read a game.
Unfortunately, we’re not good at simple stuff like driving mauls, getting over the stripe from 5 metres out, getting a solid platform from scrums, and (particularly when Ashman is throwing) hitting our jumpers at line-outs. Fix those things and maybe we’d get away with a vanilla 10. Right now, though, we need a mad magician like Finn.
The argument is such bollocks on so many levels
“Can Scotland afford a player who takes risks”
Sports supposed to have an element of risk to it, simply taking safe options all the time would be predictable
The level of blame being placed on Russel is also hilarious in that.
Scotland don’t have a pack, or level of physicality of player for a 10 to just boot their team in the other teams red zone and pick and go all over the place, they were doing as you said numerous times v England and simply didn’t have the players to do it
The other 10s aren’t even close to being as good as Russell
In a list of genuine Scottish Rugby root and branch issues you’d be lucky if Finn Russel was even in the top 25
The media love a narrative though I suppose, more so when it’s coming up to a Lions
Also as an aside Dan Biggar is a complete melt, did people learn nothing watching him play the sport
“He can’t read a game” honesty, it’s maybe worth watching a different sport
Totally agree. I thought most of what was good with Scotland came from Finn. The switch to Darcy that ended in a try for France was unfortunate but if it had come off we’d have been in for a try ourselves, something that no amount of picking and going was going to achieve (we couldn’t even manage it taints Wales in the second half!)
Finn Russell is inconsistent, you cannot read him. Outside of him is a wrecking ball, in Sione, or straight through Hew . Duhan needs three to mark him, or the dancing Darcy , and the menace of Kinghorn makes us a pretty difficult side to deal with. Collectively it works for us, is there anyone else that can give us that consistent , inconsistency to bring such a diverse range of attackers into play ? No !
On paper , it is brilliant. Most (not all there is always one that thinks it is all about him) of the Pundits of every nation want to see him at 10 for the Lions , says it all really. He is the most talked about man in the Premiership. Biggar was never that !
Finn’s day in the sun will come to an end eventually , they all do , however it is not anytime soon.
Dan Biggar has a long standing bitterness and jealousy when it comes to Finn. I think Finn replacing him in the third Lions test in SA and transforming the game is a real source of discomfort for him. He has also referred to Finn as a ‘flicks & tricks’ fly half. He’s clearly bitter because he himself had very little flair and creativity.
Calm down mate it was only an opinion.
I never said never to take a risk.I simply stated that there is a time and a place and that play was never on. Russell’s ability to recognise that is what I’m calling into question.
The risk was outweighed by the reward.
That play basically cost us any chance.
Just saying
I’m calm, your opinion is absolute nonsense
Toony said after the match that the Jordan try was disallowed because one of Kinghorn’s ‘bum cheeks’ was in touch. He later averred that the transgressing body part was actually the full back’s elbow. In so doing, Toony unwittingly gave substance* to the argument that he doesn’t know his arse from his elbow…
* I would have thought that his continued selection of Ashman was evidence enough of that.
Great comment 😂
Such a shame that we couldn’t carry that excellent first half performance into the second half. All around us, France fans were getting quieter and more nervous as we continued to batter back from 10-0 down. We genuinely thought we’d got the lead at the end of the half and were baffled by there being no stadium announcement of the reason for disallowing the try.
Second half was very disappointing. Coaches and players really have to find a way to kick on after the break, as we all believed (well, our group of nine believed) that building on that first half gave us a real chance of winning the Test.
A surrender to Ireland, a failure to beat an inferior England team, a second-half brain fade against Wales and not capitalising on first 40 minutes dominance of France all combine to make this imo a very disappointing 6 Nations for us.
I am in 2 minds about the need for a change at the top, mainly because we lack depth in quality, particularly in the front 5. But the other side of argument is that we will continue to be 3rd or worse in 6 nations, fail in world cup and have a couple of decent wins in autumn tests, if we do nothing. The right person might be able to get the team to deliver more
We were 4th not 3rd. It is getting worse. Like you , I am not sure we need a change ,That ship sailed a long time ago, we need to see this through , but I have no idea what the SRU believe is achievable . Every nation in the 6 Nations can see this team are much better than the outcomes. If we get perspective , we have 2 pro sides. We are doing well to be 7th in the rankings.
Eh : finishing 4th is worse than finishing third. You do not need to be a Rugby god to understand that fact.
It’s not “getting worse” others are “getting better” I’m sorry but anyone who thinks Scotland are entitled to finish above France, England and Ireland is a fn idiot
We’ve massively benefited from England and France under punching for a while
Scotland comfortably have the 4th/5th best Rugby Structure in the 6N, the issues are far far deeper than Townsend – should he replaced aye go for it, do we do much better…..be chance luck of under performance of others as much as a designed culmination of a Union as a 6N win should be, so in that case it’s a big no for Scotland in terms of wining the thing
Eh we have finished above these sides before and we have not achieved any more than Cotter who actually got us through the pool stages in a world cup. But we do need perspective . I think Townsend has learned a lot and is there now. Was it worth it ! You decide. We have Two pro teams , England lost Worcester, Wasps and London Irish in the post covid financial difficulties which is more sides than we have , so yes we are minnows.
Looking at the pundits lions selection, it does like Finn Smith was right to hang on for an England jersey. He is highly favoured. That will not help our recriutment team .
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh
I don’t know why people still speak about Cotter, he left Scotland years ago now, after a 6 Nations when we finished 4th, shipped 60 points and finished, where….behind England, Ireland and France and managed to get out a pretty piss easy World Cup Qualifying group at the time, there was no miracle performed during his time with Scotland, he achieved about par with what we had.
Since he left very little has changed in terms of an improved Scottish Rugby structure, and thus results are still pretty comparable.
Scotland have the 4th/5th best structure in the 6 Nations and thus as an average its hardly much of a shock they tend to finish 3rd, 4th or 5th in part depending on how the other Unions are performing each season, but if the other 3 are close to where they should be, their entire Rugby structure is on a completely different planet to where Scotland is.
People still talk about Cotter as he was liked and when he was ousted, we expected better. Now you could argue the SRU never said we would get better and I would agree, but we wanted more.
We have still never finished better than third and he did get a third place with Cotter – fact. Furthermore we did get out of a Piss easy group , but we did get out of it. The reason we ended up in a hard group the next world cup was because the team dropped out of the top 8 as I recall, and Cotter was not in charge then – fact.
All facts , it just depends on whether you want to put subjectivity like ‘ Piss easy ‘ group or avoid remebering the best placing not the last one.
Incidently we would have got to a quarter final in the ‘Piss easy group’ if it was not for a referee decision by a guy who sprinted off the field at the end and was condemned by his employers a few weeks later. It is easy to get subjective.
I am not to bothered. I think the replace the coach argument was relevant a few years ago , but not now.
Semi-final, no?
I find it odd he was so “liked” personally given as mentioned, he put up such par performance, what is “liked” is a projection of what he might have done, most of it just utter fantasy to be honest given during the 6N when he left we also put up a display as mentioned when we shipped 60, that’s hard to do in the 6N its just as likely we weren’t on the projection many thought and we would, as the 4th/5th best Union with such a small group of players in comparison to others always be met with issues during the 6N when we face far better and stronger Unions.
FYI that points difference was that big it stopped your “fact” from being fact, we were 4th as a consequence of points difference under Cotter, not third – fact
Incidentally we would have finished 2nd in the 6 Nations last year if not for a refereeing decision, aunty, balls, uncle etc and so on, but who cares really, it’s a rewrite of ifs and maybes, the reality of it is Cotter took Scotland to 4th and pumped by England and suffered the same limitations as a consequence of the disadvantages of the Union and popularity of the sport in the country any other coach will
Some folks have ideas miles above reality when it comes to the National side and how piss poor the whole structure is in comparison to others which will always bite
The reality is ‘Cotter took Scotland to 4th’ and was let go.
The reality is Townsend has just taken Scotland to 4th. ! Are you compromising your own point !
It begs the question Is it worse to ‘ship 60’ to England or score three tries to their one and gift them the Calcutta Cup by one point? In your opinion.
There is no question IMO we shipped 60 to a much better team, it is well documented !
Might have finished 2nd this year too but for a refereeing decision.
Quite right Rory – In a few words the point is made. I like your style. You are right it was a semifinal.
We now have supporters who will never have seen Scotland progress from the Group stage and at some point that will filter through to grass roots rugby . Maybe not , however success usually breeds success to use an old adage.
“It begs the question Is it worse to ‘ship 60’ to England or score three tries to their one and gift them the Calcutta Cup by one point? In your opinion.“
Imagine typing that 😂😂😂😂
No need to lash out. It is one that requires , however I can understand if you do not want to go there.
It is one that requires… a complete lack of sense? You have lost me here and are tying yourself up a bit now.
Rather closely lose a game away from home in the 6 Nations, when winning away is actually really difficult to do, or ship 60…..
You mean that Scotland have never won away from home in recent years ? Funny that suddenly we cannot and should not expect to win away when we have done so a lot. Scotland have won on the road, another challenege we overcame despite our poor infrastructure. Much too hard on ourselves.
You’re just making up a point to argue against that no one’s even made
What is being implied is we shipped 60 to a better team, but threw it away against a side we were better than this 6N. We were above England in the WR this year and threw it away. I am firmly with VoR here. A well presented point Sir . A very good compare and contrast on the team coached by Cotter and this one under Toony.
Hiya VOR,
The crap use of English gives you away
Enough, please.
I really don’t like blaming referees but on reflection of the whole tournament that performance at Twickenham will stick in the memory. I can’t recall a game where we have been so royally shafted. The Skinner try that wasn’t given v France was a sore one but England were literally gifted at least 10 points with a try that wasn’t grounded (and not even checked), a penalty where Itoje was off his feet and then moving Finn closer to the touchline for that final conversion. Yes we had opportunities.
The lack of red card for a flying headbutt on White on Saturday was also a stinker. Think I’ve just come to accept that we’re unlikely get these big decisions against higher ranked teams.
We need to go backwards to the days when ‘earning the right to go wide’ was the buzzline and is never more apt as now.The onslaught of possesion Russell had to deal with was enough to chowk a horse but with it we chose to flog a dead one.
Anyone else still raging? Re the yellow card for a flying head butt after the whistle. I am.
Love the quotes from Townsend like he’s doing us a favour in staying on.
He has done all he can with this group.
No shame in that, he’s been great.
Next……
Fully agree with your post
It would appear the French Hooker has been cited. Better late than never or is it just adding to the frustration ! For me it is the latter.
He has received a 3 game ban down from the entry level 6 game ban
A headbut like that is ‘assault’ at law. But the laws of rugby are bigger ? Not a great message to aspiring players male or female. That is what irks me and I do hope the referees are considering this. It may well have been the only decision open to the ref, made him look a bit toothless IMO