Scotland play their next game of the tournament at home to Ireland, a side who they have struggled against over the last decade. Did Scotland finally overcome the Irish bogey? Where it all go wrong/right?
Give us your thoughts on the game.
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42 responses
Is the reason Scotland’s are under so much pressure because Ireland are offside at every breakdown? What’s the point of the touch judges if they aren’t policing the offside line?
The Irish are very good at the street smarts….and fair play to them for it.
We need to learn and improve and we can’t start blaming the officials for our defeats
Usual shambles against the irish. Totally outplayed in every departnent. Too many errors and poor decisions
Any news on darcy graham?
Apparently out of hospital with concussion.
Kinghorn utterly pitiful…. We have much better fullbacks. No urgency, passion, fight …. 6N contenders, honestly?
Play like that against England and France and we’ll be on the receiving end of another couple of shellackings. Hell, even Wales might fancy their chances against us.
If Kinghorn ever makes a last ditch tackle it will be the first time & considering he’s the last line of defence that’s a major flaw, in fact any tackle.
England will beat us comfortably in a fortnight which will mean two wins in successive 6N campaigns and that’s assuming we manage to beat Wales. That following a RWC horror show. Questions have to be asked of Townsend. Perhaps it’s time for Franco to take the reigns. A fresh approach.
Definitely Saint Franco Smith before the Welsh sign him up.
Make that two RWC horror shows under Toony. He should have been handed his jotters years ago but given the SRU’s financial position it seems likely that he’ll be retained at least until the end of his contract.
His contract’s up at the end of the 6N. He signed a 2 year deal in April 23. With David Nucifora in charge of performance, it’ll be interesting to see if we look to Ireland again. They certainly seem to be excelling in all the ways we’re struggling
Townsend has a contract till April 2026
Well, that’s a reality check if ever there was….
Ireland bossed us for the whole first half. Then absorbed the early second half comeback and bossed us again. We’re still a good side but they’re a very good side, and that was the difference. Very disappointing performance and result this afternoon, but we still have enough skill, power and determination to win at Twickenham in a fortnight.
There wasn’t much evidence of skill, power & determination today, the exact opposite.
Hard to say anything other than we were dreadful. Ireland are a very strong side, who do the basics exceptionally well and know how to play a referee. Listening to some pundits after the game calling it a “mental block” for Scotland, I think its more like a mile wide “talent gap.” Getting a rugby lesson from Ireland has become a yearly tradition – even more regularly if we have a world cup. And we don’t look like we’re getting closer to them, if anything it’s further away.
The Good
– Sutherland, Zander Fagerson, Huw Jones, Ben White, Van Der Merwe and Jack Dempsey all gave us some good moments in attack and/or defence – but it was individual highlights rather than a collective effort
– Dave Cherry once again showed that he wasn’t the weak link many expected
– Set piece was fine
– Defence was outstanding at times, but too porous at others. Sam Warburton – who has too much annoying Head Boy energy for my liking – made a good point that we need to start defending all over the pitch like its our own try line. He’s right, our intensity wasn’t up to it
– McDowall made an impact when he came on. Took the ball flat and hard, as you’d expect from a proper 12. Thought the Finn/TJ call was the right one, but McDowall gave a good account of himself
The Bad
– Our breakdown work is now amongst the worst in the tournament. Ireland’s back row could have outplayed us in their sleep today. They were first to everything, competed with genuine ferocity, and seemed to be everywhere in attack and defence. O’Mahony was running around like a spring chicken. Our boiler room with Gray and Gilchrist is also incredibly ponderous – while others have much more dynamic and athletic options
– Hate singling out individuals, but Kinghorn was abysmal today. Playing too much as a wing at Toulouse? Or just not progressing in the areas that we know he need to improve? Give him open field and he’ll canter like a thoroughbred, but in a tight game he takes poor lines and doesn’t break the game often enough. Defence was very suspect. I’d bench him and put Jordan back to 15 (if we can, and if we have anyone left fit!)
– Even though he came off early, I had a nagging feeling that our brilliant, and occasionally mercurial, number 10 was going to have another off day. We need him to be back and firing if we’re to wrestle something positive from this tournament
The Ugly
– More injuries. Hope Graham is okay, he’s been incredibly unlucky – especially as he’s one of our true game breakers. He almost singlehandedly dragged momentum our way against Italy and that spark was sorely missing when he went off
Was almost hoarse shouting at the ref for Irish offsides, sealing off and general rule bending. Fair play to them for recognising that the ref was letting them away with it – if only we were as streetwise. As bad as they’ve been, I’ve got a feeling Wales have a feel good win in them this year. If we don’t improve, it could well be against us instead of England.
I agree about Kinghorn, he’s great in open play against Tier 2 opposition but at this level he is suspect under the high ball, loses the ball in contact, throws wild passes to no one & his defence is non-existent but he’s a Toony favourite. I’ve seen people suggesting the Lions Tour, absolutely no chance, Farrell can see things Toony is blind to.
Solid comments, King of fife, in every aspect. Thank you for intelligent technical analysis that goes beyond the immediate hounding of Toonie every time we lose. But, inevitably, a momentum shift looks overdue. And the BBC shots of his box at the end showed in clear focus a man who’s given up on his team.
Ireland’s pure physics today battered chemistry into the ground. Mindset is meaningless, if you don’t have the urgency to make it matter. Ireland were just quicker and hungrier and more powerful and more agile. Scottish optimism screwed again and looking naive and foolish.
Another parallel: listen to the Andy Burke (Scottish) and Tom English (Irish but 100% Scotland fan) podcast. What do you hear if not Burke’s native weary words of hope and Tom English’s passionate railing against the acceptance of mediocrity?
So when the time comes, let the SRU appoint a non-Scottish coach who is unemcumbered by our native fatalism.
This was a bad day, with Finn and Darcy mutually stramashed. Game plan therefore screwed. But nothing urgent was happening before that. And nothing cohesive happened later.
Every year I call for change; every year some people defend Gregor – I can’t fathom why; have you ever seen the definition of madness? Do the same thing over and over etc….
Guys – it’s been 8 years. What do you think is going to change from here?
Yes today we were unlucky with the injuries – that ensured we’d never be able to come back – but we’d already shown in the first 15 mins that we were NOT in the right frame of mind – intensity, belief, composure – all completely lacking; I thought this was supposed to be an experienced, settled team of potential lions-in-waiting? And this is one of several examples of this kind of performance against Irealnd – always in the biggest matches – WC’s, any big game in a 6 nations when we think we might have a chance – the same things keep happening. I’m bored of it and today was embarrassing.
Franco Smith has shown that you can get more out of these players in 2 seasons; Toony has had 8 and we’ve never been contenders, never got out of WC group stages. Why are people still defending the indefensible? Genuinely I’m curious to hear the case that you’d make here? Is it that people think this the most we can achieve, so he’s actually done well to get us here/ keep us here? If so, then you’re settling for mediocrity, and not willing to take risks to aim higher. It’s worth the risk. He’s not going to get us there, surely this is obvious by now?
Please do respond, I think I’m being logical, but keen to hear others views.
Who do we install at 10 if Finn isn’t back for Twickenham? Without Hastings, our options there are limited to Kinghorn, Jordan, Healy, and Burke. On balance, I’d go with Burke – we’ve tried the others and found them all wanting to a greater or lesser extent.
Kinghorn shouldn’t get the nod at 15 either. He was woeful yesterday and would most likely bleed points under England’s aerial attack. Jordan is more solid and has a better all-round game than BK, so he should start at 15.
Darcy will be out for a few weeks at least, so it’s either Rowe or Kinghorn for the 14 slot. I’d give it to the former.
There’s not much we can do about the front three, though I’d be looking to find a better option than Hurd. I’d also have Matthews in the 23 but that won’t happen.
Lock is our biggest problem. Gray and Gilchrist just aren’t dynamic enough, so I’d go for Skinner and pretty much any of the other available locks other than the aforementioned duo.
We have good players in the back row but they were totally outplayed by the Irish at the breakdown. More dynamic locks (to ease the burden on the back row in the loose) and better coaching are the only fixes currently available.
Ben White is a decent 9 who gives his all. His service isn’t the fastest, though. Wee George has the speed of service but has made more of an impression at international level as an impact sub. For me it’s either White or Dobie at 9 and Horne waiting in the wings till 55/60 minutes have elapsed.
That leaves centre. If Jordan is in at 15 then McDowall plays at 12 else it’s TJ at 12. Either way, Shug starts at 13.
I doubt that Toony would agree with much of the above so expect few unforced changes to the team that was marmalised yesterday.
King of Fife, I found it hard to disagree with most of what you say – great analysis!
If I could add to your point about Finn – re-watch the first 20 minutes and look closely at his his involvements pre-injury. I have no idea what’s happened to him this tournament, but everything he touches seems to go wrong. Passes not sticking, loose offloads, wrong decisions. I’ve honestly never seen him play like this (and I’m a big fan). And I struggle to believe it’s just because he’s missing Sione. If you look at England, when they shifted out their biggest talent from 10 you saw how Fin Smith got a better tune out of England’s phase attack. I honestly can’t tell you how Scotland are trying to attack at the moment from phase 2 onwards. They look completely aimless at times (and this was possibly more evident v Italy). The 10 doesn’t shoulder all of the blame for that of course, but driving the attack is his main job. I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but I wouldn’t be too bothered if they stick Fergus in for England and bench Finn *ducks for cover*.
I would also posit that the criticism of Kinghorn is a bit harsh. Yes he made some bad errors, but also looked like one of our only gamebreakers once Darcy went off.
Key weaknesses for us:
Second row. This has been the case for a long time, which is why they never get picked for the Lions (R Gray had one breakout 6 Nations in 2013 then went off the boil again). None of them are abrasive enough.
The other is depth at prop. We can’t try and get 60-70 mins out of Zander every week but we also can’t send out 2-3 string club players and hope to keep parity.
In my mind it’s the reason why we cannot compete with the most physical packs of Ireland and SA and why they will always have our number.
1st half multiple errors, poor decision making.
End of half try then great 2nd momentum, yellow card not given and then further multiple penalties, we are under the post, further penalty, Ireland and ref under pressure and we then decide to take the 3points.
Lost any chance to win the game from that decision, sums up the Teams weak mentality.
Manager must take some responsibility, how he has managed to last this long is a testament to accepting ongoing mediocrity performances and results.
That was dreadful. Even by the high standards set in some of the worst of the dark days of the past, that was very, very bad.
I’m not going to jump on the “Toonie must go” train but it’s certainly tempting.
I was in the west stand watching it, and some of the refereeing decisions were unusual to say the least, from forward passes to a deliberate knock on (preventing a try) that in any other universe would be a yellow.
I can guarantee you that Cotter would have won a Grand Slam with Scotland. Unfortunately with Cotter’s success the SRU thought it was a good time to bring in their mate Gregor Townsend. Townsend dismantled the team . Sport at any level is about the right MENTALLY as life itself.
We missed a Magnus Bradbury hard case . A man who go’s out for the aggression of the 50 meters sprint at the breakdown not the Darge 1200 meters at the breakdown
Saying you could have “guaranteed” a Grand Slam under Cotter is hilarious really
Got that right. Ireland’s first try was predicated on a forward pass the referee thought was fine. And the intentional knock-on in tackle and therefore yellow on that the TMO advised having viewed it and viewed it and viewed it was overruled by the mole who glimpsed it once. Ireland are brilliant at playing referees, but they’re also brilliant at the kind of dynamic cohesive teamwork Scotland still haven’t a clue how to perform against solid opposition. End of. The ghost of Joubert etc may haunt, but are flimsy, wispy excuses.
when i looked at the fixtures, this was a key game if we wanted to step up to challenge for the title. It was a test we failed miserably – we panicked , took wrong options and made errors. Ireland didnt have to do much – just had to wait for us to self-destruct under pressure.
So disappointing – dont think we will overcome our demons to be honest
Kind of a “let’s go to Hive and get the bar staff to dust off the cobwebbed bottle of Old Pulteney behind the counter” level bad
I’d love to know if Toonie feels responsible for our dire record against Ireland or has he convinced himself that the tactics and gameplan are always spot on but it is the players who always let him down with their execution. I’d seriously love to know the answer to that question. The England game becomes absolutely huge for him. If we get beaten comfortably then he’s going to be under serious pressure to step aside. I would love Franco to have a crack with our national team to see if he can get more out of the players and put up a better challenge in next year’s 6N. I understand that there are financial constraints and so sacking Townsend would involve paying compensation but if it were up to me I’d ask Franco to take the reigns of the national team and offer Toonie to see out the rest of his contract with Glasgow because I think that is his level.
I know Cummings was a big loss but I’m really disheartened by the performance of our pack yesterday. The back row was pretty much firs t choice and yet they were totally outplayed. Second row is a big problem for us. Without Cummings it is powder puff stuff. We need much better depth with our locks and props. Sione is also proving to be a big miss. Not just his playing ability but his leadership and the energy he brings.
Gilchrist needs replaced. His arms are far too thin for international level and he was anonymous. Too weak and not aggressive enough – see the failed clear out on Kelleher.
And his partner Johnny Gray is clearly not fit enough for international rugby, the pair of them couldn’t burst their way out of a wet paper bag.
I love this
Typical display against Irelznd. Cleaned out up front and lost every aspect of the game. Caveat is the horror collision was a huge blow to the team
We’re capable of so much more and my opinion of the coach hasn’t changed since Japan.
OK Ireland are a great team but were never even close. Never are.
“We’re capable of so much more”. Are we? Our very strongest team playing at the height of its powers might well give Ireland a run for their money, but given the attritional nature of the game and our tiny pool of test-quality players, we’re hardly ever going to have our strongest team all available , all on form and all 100% fit.As for Sweet and Sour’s claim that BVC would have won the World Cup, no wonder the snidey Irish media call us delusional.
Dont get drawn into the BVC comments agree or disagree it is too long ago to lament now. It came as a surprise to see we were pre favouite 4th in the tournament , however today, that makes sense. You need to win at home. It is always good to see England enjoying a win, we are right where we want to be, underdogs to a confident England. Still a lot of twists in this tournament .
The Irish are having their time in the sun. Like Wales some years ago. Nothing is forever.
Forever for Ireland, possibly not, likely to be at a far higher level for a longer period of time than Scotland, hard to see why it isn’t, Ireland now have the structure of one of the top Rugby Nations in the World, results over a long period of time now show that.
The Irish infrastructure is just on a completely other level to Scotland, something that is overlooked a lot when it comes to the expectation of some when it comes to what Scotland and Ireland should achieve.
Ireland are far greater placed to win grand slams, 6 Nations etc than us.
A period of poor international recruitment from Scotland will see us utterly screwed really, the place Scotland are isn’t that sustainable, deep down a lot know that which is why so many false expectations have been placed on this generation of players and why a lot are, on occasion way too harsh in their assessment of what Townsend has done and the notion one individual will massively change things, the whole thing needs a complete root and branch overhaul and is as close to a state of reaching where Wales currently are than Ireland
I think you can tell by the way the team looks st the anthem; what the game is going to be like. Finn looked completely flat. Not like his usual mischievous self. They didn.t look pumped up.and looked like they knew they were being thrown to the lions
FUN Rugby is for 5 year olds ffs Jonhnie , this is a professional game that needs the best professionals involved in it .
Even the best have their day. Then like it or lump it it’s time to move on .
For the most part, when you take out the truly mad stuff (“Vern Cotter would have won a grand slam”, “we should drop Blair Kinghorn”), I feel like the comments have summed up everything really well. Only two things I’d add:
It was really striking for me how much more Ireland wanted their 11th win than we wanted our first. They were so fired up, orders of magnitude better than they were against England. Through whatever imagined slight or perceived arrogance, they really hate us, and bringing POM as the custodian of that hate was a masterstroke by Easterby. He didn’t even have an amazing game, there was just an aura. From the way in which they flooded unprotected maul, through to Ryan hitting the deck after being gently pushed – by any means necessary, they desperately wanted it. That is on our coaching team, it’s always been Toonie’s Achilles heel, and short of winning the next three, it feels like we need him to bow out now.
The other thing that’s interesting about this run against Ireland is how little difference home advantage has made. Since the 2019 World Cup there have been three home and three away 6N games, and the margin of victory across each set of three games has been identical (10.67 points per game). The closest we’ve come to them in the whole run was 2021, when we played in front of zero fans. Playing in front of a home crowd actually makes things worse than being in Dublin.
My theory is that we’ve got it too, this psychological block against Ireland. When Fagerson messed up the restart after we got back to 17-11, my mate turned to me and said “well that’s that, then”. One score in it, half an hour to go, one mistake and he’d given up. I was really angry with him. Except I felt it too. And the vibe in Murrayfield suggested we weren’t alone.
Compare that to the Wales game last year, when the Welsh fans dragged their clearly inferior team back to within a point of us. I don’t have a solution to that. Maybe it’s just who we are. But if we could find it in ourselves to keep the incredible atmosphere we conjure up at anthem to the full 80 minutes, I firmly believe we’d see results improve.
There is one thing thats improved,we have a 9 that scores tries.2 from 2..6 in all..no bad gan and in how many caps ?Compare that with the laidlaw/Price ratio.The”protect the 9″law may have been useful to him if it had bedded in..bought time or drew a pen perhaps. If you want big fast passes the feet have to be planted first..he didnt get the chance.