Scotland v France: Summer Nations Series 2023, Match Preview pt II – head to heads

62 responses

1. Excellent article Kevin. Wonder if you had to do a quick check on the spelling of “complement”? Although I’m sure Kinghorn is very complimentary about Finn anyway!
   This is a must win, with our strongest XV against a backup French side, at Murrayfield. I’d take a great performance with no injuries, but we need a win to get confidence that we can perform against the top 4.

2. This feels like a strong team and when Scotland play confidently, as a team , we are at our best. A tough win tomorrow will be great for confidence. Is it too early to say I am optimistic we can do the unexpected and get out of the group , well I have said it now. I just sense this is a level headed bunch of grafters and a big win is coming.

3. Strong team, Finn as captain is very exciting, the only issue in the outside backs (looking forward to the world cup) is lack of a real kicking option, all 3 guy’s 1st instinct is to run.
   I know it’s personal preference but Crosbie adds something to the back row we haven’t got namely 6ft 5″ of pure aggression……. I reckon he needs 3 4 5 games to “get his eye in”

4. Very interesting watching the Squidge rugby preview, showing how close we came against both Ireland and France during the 6N. His view that we are the most dynamic attacking force is reasonable, just need to cut the errors out :)

   1. Thanks for pointing out the new Squidge video. Excellent watch as ever. That combination in midfield can be amazing, able tonask more questions than most defences can cope with. It is a mark of how unselfishly Finn sees his role as making other look good. When Finn is firing everyone plays better and we can dare to dream.

5. Whatever margin we win by against this crazy French selection we will not get much credit. if we lose it will be a real blow. Its a no win situation for us I feel

   1. Pyt: You are right , could not disagree with that. I simply think , there is nothing at stake here, we are not at the tournament, yet, we know 60% of the test side picks itself anyway. I think this is probably the only kind of match we ever play, where we can take credit , or demerit, not from winning or losing , but from the way in which we get there.

      Kevin: Excellent overview , thank you.

      All: Enjoy the match

6. I estimate that 2 of the starting 15 of France’s selection will start in the World Cup and less than half
   will make the French 33 selection. If we win by 10 plus points the hype will reach an all time high(this millennium anyway)

7. Lot of pressure on Scotland to dispatch a very talented but decidedly B/C France team, to retain credibility after fielding essentially our strongest line up. Weather could be a bit of a curveball too. Any kind of win and no injuries would be gratefully received but I think France might shock us with how good their fringe players are.

   1. I don’t think there is a lot of pressure on Scotland at all. Or at least France are under more pressure.

      It is a warm up for a tournament where no one expects us to go anywhere, against the higher ranked host nation. Those playing haven’t had a game in weeks, let alone together. That context has not changed, and the wider rugby media seems focussed on other warm ups and nations.

      This should be a fun one: two sides crammed with excellent players – one looking to get systems firing, the other with players making a case for selection.

8. Anyone any idea what the piece of music is that is played as we file on to Murrayfield?

9. Result so far is what you can expect by reappointing Clownsend as coach. A totally clueless Scotland!

   1. Want to re- evaluate your comment maybe

10. As poor a half as I’ve seen for a wee while, line-out a lottery, no control whatsoever, France well coached Scotland less so

11. Urgh…looking a short RWC for us then! Demolished by FRANCE B.

12. Genuinely terrible refereeing and that is putting it kindly. Turned numerous big moments – blunting Scottish attack and gifting France opportunities, to say nothing of the swinging arms on White and DVM. This is how corrupt officiating impacts games – swinging momentum at the key times then giving back penalties when it makes zero difference to appear balanced. Clear as day bias whoever is involved in the TMO (Irish by any chance?), as there is little other explanation, and O’Keefe (at best) open to constant direction from the higher ranked team. Someone needs to have a firm word with him at half time, and tell Finn to step up and point it out on the pitch. I hope GT has it in him to speak with the officials. Feels like a rusty performance with a refereeing team determined to procure the result for the French and world rugby. It’s the start of another World Cup, so who should be surprised.

    1. And then did their best not to give the try.

       1. Staggering inconsistency.

13. ZF is an utter brainless idiot. Not first time he has done this and no call for it.

14. wow what a terrific effort that was in the second half and what a contrast with that first half. Really enjoyed that.

15. Beat the French and the TMO. Russell and the whole team stepped it up. Horne staked his claim at 9 and the replacement front row held their own. Above all, ground out this win through sheer force of will. Phenomenal.

    1. Nothing wrong with the officiating, we caused problems for ourselves. We were shocking in the first half, controlled in the second. White hopefully isn’t a loss, Horne to start next week (although we all know that GT will pick Price) and ZF needs someone to have a word with him.

16. Having just swallowed my hat….Crikey! talk about a game of 2 halves. Why can’t we shake off this issue of turning up for only 40 mins?

    What a difference Darge makes imo…surely a stick on in the starting side.
    Dave Cherry is soo underrated…excellent hooker and consistant thrower..Id have him as starter..let alone making the squad.

    1. Darge is some player. Heard an Irish fan say that Scotland won’t ever get any better than the last 6 nations. With the likes of him and Redpath, Finn going from strength to strength, whisper it, there’s a future for this team too.

17. Everything considered a tremendous win.
    As Vern Cotter said Its hard to get a handle on Scotland (or something like that)
    Playing proper rugby Scotland are pretty good, but the errors the inconsistentcy that kill us.
    Ashman is not to be trusted, Cherry a solid citizen
    Kinghorn is unquestionably a good player but…..
    Z.Fagerson, what hoes through his heed

    1. Seemed to me playing BK at 10 wasn’t a waste of time after all.I can’t see any other reason for that ballsy performance.The feeling of having a permanent home may be another or just feeling more senior,whatever,he was very good…in attack.
       But,his defence wasn’t tested on Sat and that’s the issue for me.if he’s got rid of the fear when contact is coming his way..we’ll..let’s rock.

18. This team is never beaten. That’s the takeaway.

    P.S. Glimpse of a cheeky Redpath / Jones midfield pairing, not suggesting for one second changing Huwipulotu! Kinghorn is some find at 15 lol. Cummings back. Ritchie Gray easily lasts the whole game. Darge an immediate influence. So so many positives.

19. …and Zander!!?…when will he ever learn? Just waiting for the SA opener ban now…as if we weren’t up against it anyway.

    1. Might need to register him for a few super-6 games to have him back in time for SA…

       Sure some English/Irish players have gotten away with it before.

20. Two points really stick out:
    – to do that with 14 men against 15, let alone a French side packed with Champions Cup and Top 14 winners (there might be bigger matches to come but not bigger challenges)
    – every player believed they would win and was not going to allow anything else at the end, could see it in every contact and feel it, it was beyond the second half at Twickenham and should be game changer in confidence

21. That was a great performance, ignoring the poor first half. Why are we always diesel engines in getting going? Stressful to watch, but great show of grit and focus in second half. Cherry and Darge excellent, Bhatti still not convincing, Kinghorn outstanding. Horne excellent. We’ll need 80 mins of that next week when we face their A team.

22. Ashman and White not communicating at the mall in first half- disastrous. Cherry showed how it’s done.

23. Scotland ponderous throughout the first half. Forwards still not competing effectively at the breakdown and at least two of them consistently fail to make any ‘go-forward’ contribution. All credit for second half surge of energy and persistence but anything less than an 80 minute performance of that intensity is unlikely to beat either SA or Ireland.

24. If there’s one player you had to choose to stay fit and on form for the RWC, it’d be Richie Gray. At 34, he still has power in the tight, 80 minute stamina and on the end of the right darts is nailed on either to win our throws or steal or disrupt the opposition’s. His skills and nous will be needed when we play Saffers and Ireland in France, or indeed anyone else if we get out of the group.

    1. Ritchie Gray and Finn pls. With Schoeman, Nel and Dempsey not far off. And you’d want at least one of VDM and Darcy fit and firing. At least elsewhere there are some options.

25. I saw nothing wrong with the officiating today..If these comments are to be made after a Scottish win, what will they like after a loss by us. to satisfy some posters we would need a Scottish referee
    and Scottish TMO for our games …not to mention cheating opposition players ( our players never cheat!!)

    1. I though Ben O’Keeffe was just a bit late in warning France about the penalty count in the Red Zone (Second Half).

26. My tuppence worth. It’s the old adage but it really was a game of two halves, whole team stepped up in the second half, that plus the ref giving a lot of decisions our way meant a huge shift in momentum.

    Darcy, what a player. Kinghorn had a good game too. Dave Cherry gave the most assured performance over the last two weeks. Zander needs his head looking at, still too many moments of madness. It’s a concern, no doubt we won’t get the Irish treatment where bans always seem to match exactly the number of games before you have an important one… thought Mish had a pretty decent game, not his best by any means but better than he has been of late, Darge was excellent when he came on as was Cammy Redpath. Finn had a solid game, looked a bit rusty in the first half but that’s forgivable. Shame about Ben White, hope he’s ok, but he wasn’t having his best game IMO and Hornito stepped it up when he came on. Hopefully Toonie gives him a run out in the 9 shirt next time.

    Lot of folk getting hung up on the “second string” French side, yes there were some big name missing but such is the depth of talent in France it’s not like it was a bin juice team was it, still a full on French test side.

    1. Absolutely a second string team, only a handful likely to force their way into the 23 and not too many more into the 33. But France rivals NZ and SA in terms of strength in depth, if not surpasses them. A second string France drew a test series in Australia and won in Japan in recent years.

       We were painfully slow to get started but when we were up and running blew them away. So reasons for optimism as well as concern but we hopefully have time to blow away the cobwebs and ensure we don’t start so ponderously against SA.

27. 14 man Scotland beat France, that’s what the headlines should say. I got what I wanted, a hard earned win to build confidence and resilience. That is what we can do when we play as a team, I loved this match , it took all 14 to win. Even the close out when France attacked, we stayed cool and a turnover to close the game.

    What about the way we did it ! Some really poor kicking first half, we looked clueless, but when we started to run directly they made mistakes. Credit to George Horne for his fast service, that was key , second half.

    Red was a red , all day long.

    1. Agree red was fair but I hope it is seen as a low end offence given there was little speed or force in the collision and no injury resulted. A 2 game ban would probably suffice…

       1. You need to factor in that this is not first time he has done this i.e. stupidity factor

       2. In fact, I feel he has let the team down and can’t be trusted not to be stupid. Is he a liability?

28. Watson is done at test Level….has been anonymous every match ive watched him for almost 2 years. Slow, no real go forward and ineffective at the jackal now.

    Would not be in my RWC squad. Ritchie, Darge, Fagerson, Dempsey, Bayliss should be in the final squad…from what ive seen. Crosbie just hasn’t transferred his abilities to international level.

29. Henderson, Rowe, McDowell and Hastings have been dropped from Scotland’s WC squad

30. Agree with RuggersB re Watson.

    Hastings out of the squad (unless he is unfit) is a mistake for me, it just means all our eggs in the one basket – run from everywhere, no real alternative.

31. Is Hastings unfit or is this another of Toony’s unfathomable decisions?

    1. It doesn’t say why they were released in the BBC article.

    2. Finn and Healy offer two ends of the No 10 spectrum…BK10 is also there if needed. Why take 3 tens? Hastings a little unlucky but tactically it makes sense to me…we’ll need plenty of forwards

       1. I’ve not seen anything to suggest that Healy is a better or more rounded 10 than Hastings.

          As for potentially having to shoehorn Kinghorn in at 10, we’ve little enough chance at overcoming either South Africa or Ireland as it is…

32. Stick or twist for next week?

    Surely has to be Scotland B/C versus France A. Keep Finn, RG, Nel, Schoeman, Dempsey, Huwipulotu, Darcy, VDM and Kinghorn miles away from St Étienne. Was about to say Price and Hastings are due a run out, along with the likes of Redpath, Harris, Cummings, Ritchie. See if we can’t decide who should be starting at Hooker.

    Shot to nothing and preserve the momentum of the starting XV.

33. Team for France

    Kinghorn – Graham – Jones – Tuipolotu – Van Der Merwe – Russell (C) – Horne – Dempsey – Darge – Ritchie (VC) – Gilchrist – Gray – Sebastian – Turner – Schoeman

    Steyn – Redpath – Price – Fagerson – Cummings – Walker – Bhatti – Cherry

    Despite risk of injuries and this pretty much being a guaranteed loss, the experience of the atmosphere this game will provide, along with the intensity of the opposition is exactly the kind of preparation this team needs for the South Africa and Ireland games.

    Full strength other than Nel, whos only job needs to be the scrums now. Good chance to see how Sebastian and Walker handle this kind of game.

    1. I probably agree with that team to be honest, Ritchie will be the captain not Finn as Ritchie is the team captain. Depending on how Zanders hearing goes will determine whether we need to wrap Nel in cotton wool or not so I would assume the worst and give the other two a go at the weekend. I would be tempted to give Cherry a go in the 2 shirt. He was the most solid out of the 4 hookers who have played, all have played pretty well but Cherry’s darts were a lot better and he was getting around the park. I thought Mish had an ok game, not his pinballing best but better than he has looked for a while, but I agree he’s no longer the first name on the team sheet and Darge has probably usurped him. I’m pretty loose on Fagerson vs Dempsey, still think Matt Fagerson offers a lot more than he gets credit for but Dempsey is playing well and Matt is a good bench option being equally good at 6 or 8 and both Ritchie and Darge comfortable at 7.

       One thing for sure though, Horne needs to start. He always looks fantastic when he comes on but a fresh scrum half always looks great, that’s why he needs to start for a change.

    2. Rather bank the France win and see if anyone else can play themselves into contention:

       Smith, Steyn, Harris, Redpath, VDM, Healey, Price, Bayliss, Ritchie (c), Crosbie, Cummings, Skinner, Sebastian, Turner, Sutherland.

       Graham, Kinghorn, Dobie, Fagerson, Darge, Walker, McInally, Bhatti.

    3. Heart:

       Kinghorn – Graham – Jones – Tuipolotu – Van Der Merwe – Russell (VC) – Horne – Dempsey – Darge – Ritchie (C) – Gilchrist – Gray – Sebastian – Cherry – Schoeman

       Smith – Redpath – Price – Bayliss – Cummings – Walker – Bhatti – Ashman

       Head:

       Kinghorn – Steyn – Jones – Tuipolotu – Van Der Merwe – Russell (VC) – Horne – Dempsey – Darge – Ritchie (C) – Gilchrist – Gray – Sebastian – Turner – Schoeman

       Graham – Redpath – Price – Fagerson – Cummings – Walker – Bhatti – Turner

       Toonie tombola:

       Smith – Steyn – Harris – Redpath – Van Der Merwe – Healey – Price – Bayliss – Darge – Ritchie (C) – Cummings – Gray – Sebastian – Turner – Schoeman

       Jones – Kinghorn – Dobie – Fagerson – Gilchrist – Walker – Bhatti – McInally

34. Hastings and Rowe unsurprising….both simply haven’t played rugby for a long while.
    McDowell and Henderson more surprising …but an obvious lack of experience going into a RWC.

    Harris is another …similar to Watson ..that to me looks done at test level. I get the experience factor but simply hasn’t produced at test level for a fair while. Id rather see Steyn selected as he can play wing and 13 at a very good level. GT will no doubt select Harris for being a ‘defense leader’

35. Steyn is surely guaranteed one of the five back three slots anyway?
    Worry is if ZF gets a long ban ruling him out of say the first 2/3 games in France and not just the SA match would Townsend need to take three TH’s (including ZF) and have to sacrifice someone else-ie either a sixth back row or one back five or centre? If the case then arguably Steyn covers outside centre as well so leave out Harris completely.Or else one of Crosbie/Watson/Bayliss left behind.
    Food for thought!

36. I think when Harris first came into the side he was seen as 13 and wing cover. I thought he was pedestrian slow for a wing then and unless he has reversed centuries of evolution and actually gotten faster with age, he is a 13 or nothing.
    Since we hear so much about versatility in WC squads and the possibility of an extra tighthead now needed, I would say his coat is on the shoogliest peg – coaches favourite or not.
    Defensive leader fine and that was always the argument for Harris over Jones. The current centres work well defensively and, 1st half match rustiness aside on Saturday, have never looked the defensive bombshell that many feared. They add so much more in attack as well as shown by the comparative games versus France and Italy.

37. Again, where is Kebble, he can do a job a tighthead?

38. When is Zandbags citation hearing and when are we likely to hear length of ban ?

    I fear a long one given his record……..

    1. Hearing today – usually takes a while to get result published and reported but as Townsend names his squad for St Etienne on Thursday guess we’ll probably find out tomorrow.

       1. Cheers FF

          Bit threadbare already in the tighthead stakes. Not ideal at all.