Scotland v France: Player Ratings

65 responses

1. Mostly agree with the majority of scores/comments – not going to rehash all the points I have made elsewhere but….

   Wilson – agree with comments but he didn’t get to his man leading to Frances 2nd try and got outpaced a few times, so -1 defence. 6

   Russell – deserves a bit more I think, he controlled the game and did at least as well as those around him. The incident was him trying to call a play with the outside backs when the ball unexpectedly came squirting out towards him when it looked like a ruck was forming. 7

   Horne and Harris – did ok, but I think you are bigging them up a bit too much. Horne’s Interception was pretty bad and he didn’t do much in attack, Harris took his try really well and was solid but didn’t stand out for a lot of the game (scoring a try does not automatically mean you had a great game). Horne 6, Harris 7.

   The biggest surprise was Kinghorn, who had his best game by far – deserves to go to Japan.

   1. and also – Harris nearly butchered the 1st try by not passing outside to Hogg.
      If we hadn’t gone on to score, he would be getting crucified.

      1. I think Horne did more in attack than you noticed. Made some good yards and linked well with others in second half. On Harris if you watch him he tries to get the ball to Hogg but realised he can’t so takes it into contact instead. That’s smart thinking under pressure. Something Scotland haven’t had in the past.

      2. Perhaps – although to me, the reason he couldn’t get the pass away was he left it too late, if he had looked a bit earlier it was definitely on.

         Still, better than just randomly throwing the ball away like we usually do!

      3. To me it looked like Harris didn’t pass to Horne (I think the pass to Hogg was covered) as he’d decided to go himself.

      4. On Harris, the pass wasn’t on – the French player would have intercepted it. He did the right thing, kept the ball in play, took the contact, quick recycle.

   2. To be fair, Maitland abandoned him far too early for the second try. Maitland flipped his hips and expected Wilson to catch the 13 French from behind which was never going to happen.

   3. Russell dropped a ball that was a regulation catch – which directly led to a loss of 7 points. At least -2 on D for that.

      1. Interesting point, currently our system doesn’t discriminate between errors, ie a dropped ball that is just a knock on vs one that as you say results in an opposition score would perhaps both appear as -1. Might need to take that into account.

2. amazed at the Kinghorn rating. I’ll watch replay later but live I thought he had a good last quarter but earlier was dreadful – positioning, tackling and butchering of a try by passing too early. By 60-65 mins he was definitely not going to Japan, may have salvaged it of course but he has a propensity to make huge errors in defence

3. Think some of these are a bit generous but Horne bounced back well from his intercept howler and glad to see not everyone is jumping on him. I thought Turner was terrible though. Gave away a few stupid penalties, his handling was poor and he just looked lost.

4. I think these are pretty spot on, but I’d give Hogg a 9 for attack and influence and an 8.5 overall.

5. agree with spectic 9 – Kinghorn passed way to early to Hogg when he had a 1 on 1, a kick or even beating a static (ish) defender would’ve resulted in a thrilling try. I suspect Darcy Graham would’ve ensured a try was scored if he had the ball in that position. With Maitland clearly back up 15, it looks like McGuigan or Kinghorn for the remaining wing spot (both will go if Seymour’s prognosis is negative)

6. No starter less than 6.5 and we scraped a 3pt win 🙄

   1. Against a good French team so I don’t see how the margin is a problem?

7. I like Kinghorn but he has a major defect, he can’t tackle. Wee Graham can and gets stuck right on. Hope I’m wrong but think GT will pick 5 centres including Jones and Horne and rely on Taylor and Harris to cover the back 3, meaning Darcy and BK miss out.

   I thought Turner was rotten, bad darts and discipline. One of his darts was plain bizarre. Met him once and it did make me wonder, his wrists felt a bit spindly for a hooker who needs to throw darts. No surprise some of his darts yesterday were undercooked. Either Stewart or Lawson for 3rd choice hooker.

   Thomson – not convinced. Seems people swoon as he’s a Kiwi who played super rugby. Looks to have good hands but he ain’t that heavy and think he cocked up a couple of restarts yesterday – something the much maligned Wilson does very well. I’ll be pissed off if he gets in ahead of guys like Wilson and Ritchie. I’d play Barclay at 8 ahead of him. Seems to me Barclay and Watson despite being 7s are our more effective carriers.

   1. BLB
      In addition to Thomson not going because he has a narrow waist. Turner shouldn’t either cause he has small wrists. I hope your not involved in coaching.

   2. He’d probably be disappointed that he let you feel up his wrists if he knew you were just doing it to measure whether he’d be in your squad or not.

   3. To be fair Thomson at 106kg is very light for 6 foot 6. But he clearly plays a different game to a guy like Bradbury who is 116kg at 2 inches shorter.

      I’d be worried about Cummings as well, he has very thin arms.

      1. Funny I was just thinking Darcy Graham’s feet are on the small side

   4. Missed a few throws but I don’t think a few were his fault. Great at the break down and scrum.
      Side note I don’t think you should be feeling boys wrists with such interest. Comes across creepy.

8. Good performances from Kinghorn, Watson and Harris. Don’t get the calls for Ritchie Gray to get a nod back in the squad as Cummings showed some great defense yesterday and would have got a try if Laidlaw had passed to him on the line at the 1st try

9. I agree for the most part roughly with these ratings, i think Russell really took control of that game with his kicking & turned it around for us, deserves a higher score.

   I think people just automatically add 2-3 points to Hogg now because of his history, i think besides his one kick and chase he was pretty average in attack & defense just doing the basics.
   He is still clearly first choice in my eyes but i don’t think he has reached his previous heights this season. (probably why he has been asking for more gametime)

   1. I completely agree with you on this one. He had a few errors, but I thought Russell was our best player, not our worst. We wouldn’t have won that game without him, and could have won it by more if the odd bounce of a ball had gone better. He kicked a lot, showing a different side to his game in this one. It was good to see him (and Laidlaw) orchestrating a different type of win.

      On Hogg, his chip through was great but overall I’m very worried about his mindset. He increasingly just seems to be an individual who wants to do it all himself too much of the time. Brilliant player, but he needs to trust those around him more. I feel he should have reacted quicker to get something on Penaud at the first try too.

      1. Totally agree about Finn. Keeping the ball in hand wasn’t working in the first half. We had no penetration. Space opened up when he started working the French around the park with his kicking game

   2. I thought a lot of our territorial kicking and clearance kicking was poor. Yes, Russell had a few nice dinks in attack but his defensive kicking needs some work.

      I agree on Hogg, I don’t think he had that great a game. Perhaps that’s just comparing him to his normal high standards though.

   3. Hogg is overall best FB we have. However he is weak in defense….and teams will target him throughout the world cup, I fear, his positioning and tackle are both poor. Terrific in attack though. it interesting people highlighting Kinghorn’s defending… his tackles got us into great position v France. A better tackler than Hogg…imo…pace in attack too.

   4. Stuart Hogg is in an unenviable position. He is going to Japan and is just keeping out of trouble. He is destined for a new club after the RWC, that must be on his mind, he is only human. As I recall, Scotland have not done as badly as one might imagine without Hogg. Perhaps the remaing two games are a time to try out a replacement fullback, give him a break.

10. Interested to here peoples thoughts of qualifying out of the pool and making it to the quarterfinals? With Samoa, Japan (home turf) and Ireland in pool. I’d go for 45% chance of qualifying. With Japan being on home turf I have them slightly ahead of Scotland. Heart of course is much more confident.

    1. Samoa seem to be a shadow of themselves at the moment.

       Japan are a threat, although they might not look quite as good against a tier 1 team. Hopefully they will have run out of steam by the time we play them.

       Ireland are not unbeatable judging by their last 2 games.

       We should qualify, but a couple of injuries or an off day would be enough to change that.

       I’m 75% confident…..

    2. I’d be nervous going into the final game against Japan both having lost a game and being equal on points with the winner going through. I’m not sure the team are mentally tough enough for that.

       Ireland haven’t looked good but if we don’t learn how to beat their rush defence we’re not going to win. They’ll defend and kick the ball and play percentage rugby and we need to find a way to break them down.

       I think I’d rather play the All Blacks than SA in the quarters. If you’re going to beat them might as well get it over with early 😆

       1. I think this is why Finn has been practising his range of chip kicks

    3. On current form …theres a chance Japan could win the group.
       Its difficult to say based on preseason matches tho.
       Its a big advantage being at home …itll be a tight group.
       Whoever gets to the QF won’t be going any further… SA and NZ will be in the semis…id say.

11. This narrow waist talk is hilarious. Maro Itoje has a narrow waist and is an absolute beast.

    Also, Martin Johnson and Al Kellock didn’t have big arms but were still pretty decent locks.

    1. I agree that all the narrow waist, small arms chat is a bit weird. From a tv screen how on earth can someone tell a waist size (if you can that’s an amazing skill) or bicep measurements. Rugby is a game of skill and power.

12. Think Laidlaw had a good game and seemed a bit quicker than usual with ball from the ruck. Maybe a factor in that was our more aggressive rucking, better ball presentation and the French ineffectively competing there. Its still a bit telegraphed when everything is slowed down for a planned kick. Would still love him to make a break occasionally to keep the opposition guessing.

    Cant believe how many fumbles and knock-ons there were for both teams on a perfect day for open rugby.

    1. Why bother now? No one expects Greig to break. Save that for the World Cup when everyone has written off the chances of him doing it in their prep, and it can have maximum effect.

       1. Like his match-winning try against Samoa in 2015!

       2. Like that game against Argentina – Cotter’s first. Perhaps Laidlaw’s best game in a Scotland shirt.

13. I recall Gilco came on for Cummings, not Skinner. He was better than last week when the heat overwhelmed him, Georgia will test whether we need workman like locks or not. Reid and Nel appear to have found great form and on time., maybe prop remains a place for the old experienced dogs after all. I expected a bit more from Dell, however he did nothing wrong, but we cannot take them all. Tommy Seymour looked trim and fit.Laidlaw captained well.

14. How many times does Horne need to Make mistakes in big games before he stops being cheerleaded constantly? Even here he gifted a try. Harris the next big thing? Don’t think so. Contrasts markedly with the anti Jones agenda, but can’t fathom why. Ok, decent performances at home against an unmotivated French side alongside Laidlaw, Russell, Hogg, Maitland. Good players, but fringe for international rugby, both of them, surprised if both on plane.

    1. He made a mistake but otherwise played well. Scotland’s midfield was unspectacular but defensively solid.

       For me Jones has to be on the plane alongside Johnson and Taylor. So it’s Horne vs Hutchison for me and I’d probably plump for experience. Harris played well but I don’t think he offers enough in attack for a 13.

       1. For me Harris just bumped Jones off the plane. Jones lack of fight when the chips are down is a real leveler. Great finisher no one can deny….but with a lack of defensive nous in the team we don’t have the luxury of including a player solely on that. We need centre that can do both attack and defend. We have flair in Russell and Hogg.
          Id take Taylor, Johnson, Harris and Hutchinson ( he has acclimated straight into test level….and offers a talented 10/12 option), Harris looks has increasingly showed flashes in attack….whilst not as good as Jones in attack…much better defender and a reasonable attack threat.
          Horne is like Wilson, to me, can play a solid match for the majority…and then inexplicably put us right in the poo…with bomb scare passing or cheap penalties. I wouldn’t take either.

       2. Hasn’t Squidge Rugby debunked the ‘Jones is pants in defence’ myth? Harris has looked good in one game. By this point in his international career Jones had five tries, and they were beauties for which he’d had to work. Harris has had two (well-taken) walk-ins. I do think we’re awfully quick to big up and rule out players based on scant evidence. I think Harris won’t lose you a game, but Jones can win you a game. I’d like to see Jones play himself back into form – it wasn’t long ago that he was being talked up as a Lions tourist and future great. That said, if Harris goes instead I hope he crushes it!

       3. Harris and Huw Jones ? You serious, Jones has the odd off day , we have had one good day with Harris. No one we face in Japan is shaking in their socks facing Chris Harris. If we play him often enough he is bound to have a good game. Ok , he has finally had a good day , you finally got it right, can we get back to preparing the class act that is Huw Jones, no one feels safe when he shows up on his game.

       4. P Horne does this in every match – daft passes intercepted.

          He should have died with the ball on Sat – instead he shovelled a telegraphed pass that resulted in another try against us.

       5. Agree. Though haven’t seen much of Hutchison.

    2. Because other than that mistake (which was unfortunate as it was a bit of a hospital pass and he got clattered just as he passed) he had a very good game in my opinion. Some excellent work in defence and he continues to run excellent support lines to line breaks. Yet again we win a game that Horne starts at 12, I would like to see some stats!

       Interesting one on Jones. I’m sure I watched a “Huw Jones can defend and your all talking nonsense” type of video. Would part of his early success be that he was quite often partnered with Alex Dunbar who was a defensive colossus, and covered for some of Jones’s alleged misgivings?

       1. I think it was an old 1014 video which is usually quality analysis that said he had the highest tackle completion percentage of all the six nations outside centres.

          His lack of good recent performances comes down to 2 things in my mind.

          1. Lack of game time at Glasgow

          2. lack of consistency in selection of 10-12-13 for Scotland.

          I would be interested to know when jones has had his best performances… i would suspect after a run of games with Dunbar & Horne, & when he had regular club game time.

15. I think we’ve nailed a good way to trim down the squad.

    Thomson has a thin waist.
    Turner thin wrists.
    Cummings thin biceps.
    Graham small feet.
    Reid has thin legs for a prop.
    Nel is balding.

    1. Finally someone brave enough to say what we were all thinking.

       1. Graham and Hogg can stay home as well – now that Hogg has cut his hair and given it to Darcy, I can’t keep track of who is who on the pitch…..

16. A few thoughts on the game.

    Firstly, Reid and Nel offer far more scrum solidity than Bhatti and Fagerson. For Scotland, this vastly outweighs work in the loose in value. I’d have both of them going to Japan. Fagerson also travels for me. He’d be a solid bench option – his aggression off the pine could be useful. Berghan travels too. For me, he’s currently ahead of Fagerson.

    George Turner didn’t have the best game out there. However, he’s OK in the loose, and McInally and Brown have both been injured in recent memory (and Brown still is), so we’ll take Turner who is comfortably ahead of Stewart right now.

    Cummings put his hand up for selection. I’m still sceptical as to whether he’s in over Toolis – experience counts and Cummings hasn’t had much Scotland gametime – but he’s in it now. Skinner is a must-have, so everything is crossed for him. We need forwards like him with a bit of heft and pace. Hope he’s not injured. Gilchrist and Gray are also both nailed-on selections.

    Thomson looked in good touch – not ANOTHER HIA! I think he makes the cut depending on how Bradbury shows up against Georgia. As much as Wilson played a good game on Saturday, his shortcomings were exposed, and I’d still start Barclay over him. But Toonie may disagree… In any case, two of Bradbury/Fagerson/Thomson/Wilson will travel alongside Barclay, Ritchie and Watson. Ritchie’s nailed on now, I think. A real striver and our backup openside who can challenge Barclay as a 6/7 too.

    1. Is it just me, or has Laidlaw sped up a bit? Hope he’s not Pyrgossing now though. Another firm performance. Price looks like he’s maturing (I’ve no idea who starts) – and Hornito looked in good touch, too. Very good seeing him get properly stuck in.

       Russell, for what it’s worth, is still the best fly-half in world rugby right now, with Barrett marooned at #15, Farrell inside Ford, and Leali’ifano misplacing the odd kick. Not everything will come off when we’re so outwardly reliant on him, though. I think he’s dealing well with the pressure. Hastings makes me uncomfortable; he may be callow but he can’t come close to executing Russell’s game. Toonie needs to build a 2nd gameplan AROUND Hastings and trial it against Georgia.

       Pete Horne doesn’t make it, sorry. I still think Toonie will pick him on the grounds of covering fly-half, but for me he’s behind every centre in the squad, bar Hutchinson. He needs to show what he’s got over Hutch – and Johnson/Taylor. The next two games are massive for him. One of the best backs of our 2018, but he’s been fairly surpassed since. Can anyone else cover 10? Hutch might be tested there. Harris put in a good shift. Not exceptional, however; for me he’s our 4th centre. Inconsistent. Hutch will play next…

       Kinghorn surprised me. I think he’s showing enough to go, but I still prefer Graham over him. It’ll be very close – there’s no way that Toonie’s not picking Seymour, and Maitland’s our best wing. Maybe we WILL only take two rakes, IDK.

       1. NAILED ON:
          Brown, McInally, Turner
          Berghan, Dell, Fagerson, Nel, Reid
          Gilchrist, Gray, Skinner†
          Barclay, Ritchie, Watson
          Horne, Laidlaw, Price
          Hastings, Russell
          Johnson, Taylor†
          Hogg, Maitland, Seymour†

          † fitness dependant

          That leaves:

          – one from Cummings and Toolis (possibly both of them)
          – two from Bradbury, Thomson and Wilson (possibly Fagerson)
          – two from Harris, Horne, Hutchinson and Jones (possibly three)
          – two from Graham and Kinghorn (possibly both, possibly Harris)

          Grant Stewart will be there if Brown fails to recover.
          Jamie Bhatti will fall out of contention barring a MotM performance next week.
          Josh Strauss *has* fallen out of contention already.
          Byron McGuigan is a good wing, but he’s not overtaking any of the others.

          FWIW, I’d take Toolis, Bradbury & Thomson, Harris & Jones at the moment.
          I honestly don’t know which one of Graham and Kinghorn travels. Seymour’s got a lot in the bank for Toonie, but I’m not sure he’d travel in other circumstances.
          There’s a chance that all three might go, however; Thomson can cover lock (and #6), so it might be that neither Cummings nor Toolis makes it. I quite like that idea to be honest.

       2. Pretty much agree with most of that Sam Benedict, although it has always been unlikely that Wilson stays at home and his performance on Saturday pretty much sealed the deal. That would leave one out of Bradbury, Thomson and Fagerson. If Thomson’s failed HIA leaves enough doubt in Toony’s mind, then it’s a straight shoot-out between the two young guns. Going on the 6N, it would appear Bradbury is preferred but we could get a big signal depending on who is named to play on Saturday.

17. Is there any word on the Skinner injury? Toonie said he was having a scan on Saturday night.

    Unless it’s being done on the NHS and he has to wait three to four weeks for the results :)

18. As long as Johnson @ 12 (& a fit) Taylor in the squad – Jones all day long instead of Harris, Jones can be magnificent, Harris (for all his redoubtable qualities) can not. Jones v England CC 2018 would bring tears to a glass eye

19. Harris has put a marker down. Start Jones against Georgia away and expect a solid game defensively with a barnstormer in attack. Anything less then he pays for the 18 month drop in form. I’d start Hutchinson at 12 as well as he’s an absolute magician.

    1. Jones was excellent t against SA and solid against Argentina. It’s more like a 9-month drop in form.

       1. My squad (for now anyway)!:

          Hogg
          Seymour
          Taylor
          Johnson
          Maitland
          Russell
          Laidlaw
          Dell
          McInally
          Nel
          J Gray
          Gilchrist
          Wilson
          Watson
          Thomson

          Bench:

          Brown
          Reid
          Berghan
          Toolis
          Barclay
          Price
          Hastings
          Harris

          8 remaining places:

          Backs – G Horne, Jones, Graham

          Forwards- Turner, Z Fagersen, Cummings, Bradbury, Ritchie

    2. Jones started away in France. Seems only fair to give Harris the tough away game as well to see if he can handle it?

20. Predicted Tbilisi side:

    Kinghorn; Graham, Hutchinson, Johnson, McGuigan; Hastings, G Horne; Bhatti, McInally (C), Berghan; Gilchrist, Gray; Bradbury, Ritchie; M Fagerson
    (Turner, Reid, Z Fagerson, Toolis, Watson, Laidlaw, Russell, Harris)

    1. Well I sincerely hope not. Tbilisi will be a cauldron and they will look to maul us to death and make the game glacial slow. Wheeling out the greenest side we can is asking for a demoralising defeat.

21. FF
    If we choose our A team it will help Townsend very little in selecting his final 31. These games are warm up games and although results help moral ultimately we need to establish the most suitable pool of players that can work together. A mix of experience and those needing to be seen gets my vote.