Typhoon Hagibis cancels 2 games; Scotland waits

And now, here’s the weather.

England vs France and New Zealand vs Italy have been cancelled in anticipation of Typhoon Hagibis making landfall in the Tokyo region on Saturday.

Games in the only really live group – Pool A, our pool – are as yet undecided, with World Rugby going ahead with them as it stands.

Italy would not have qualified, but it does rob them of a final farewell to stalwarts Leonardo Ghiraldini – set for a cameo from the bench – and Sergio Parisse. Jokes around France and Italy getting better results than they might have done had the games been played are plentiful.

Friday, 11 October

  • Pool D match between Australia and Georgia in Shizuoka at 19:15 JST to be played as scheduled

Saturday, 12 October

  • Pool A match between Ireland and Samoa in Fukuoka at 19:45 JST to be played as scheduled
  • Pool B match between New Zealand and Italy to be cancelled
  • Pool C match between England and France to be cancelled

Sunday, 13 October

  • Every effort is being made to ensure Sunday’s matches will be played as scheduled. A thorough assessment of venues will take place after the typhoon has passed before a final decision is made on Sunday morning.

Based on the latest detailed information from the tournament’s independent weather experts, Hagibis is predicted to be the biggest typhoon of the 2019 season and is highly likely to cause considerable disruption in the Tokyo, Yokohama and Toyota City areas throughout Saturday, including likely public transport shutdown or disruption.

As a result, World Rugby and the Japan Rugby 2019 Organising Committee have taken the difficult, but right decision to cancel matches in the affected areas on safety grounds. The impacted teams have been informed and are understanding. For matches that do not go ahead as scheduled, two points will be awarded to each team in line with tournament rules.

World Rugby press release

Ireland v Samoa was initially the most at risk but a swift change of course by the horrendously large and powerful storm should see it now go ahead largely untroubled. An unlikely win for Samoa would make things a little more interesting if Scotland’s game was to be cancelled and filed as a 0-0 draw, but only if Ireland take no match points could Scotland still go through.

Scottish Rugby fully expects contingency plans to be put in place to enable Scotland to contest for a place in the quarter-finals on the pitch, and will be flexible to accommodate this.

Scottish Rugby statement

The initial tournament rules stated games would be cancelled if not played on the allocated day and we may have to take that on the chin despite the fury at the decision – or possibly the folly of playing a World Cup in Typhoon season – when it comes.

The final call on the Japan game will be made on Sunday morning when it is hoped the storm will have passed but it is believed that World Cup organisers are prepared to cancel if still not possible at that point. Whatever happens it is very unlikely Scotland will get a team run at the venue the day before – but then they are used to that.

The SRU are keen to see it played whatever the circumstances (behind closed doors or relocated) while for the hosts and tournament organisers the priority is public safety and there could be damage to transport or stadium infrastructure from the typhoon.

A lesser storm that hit Japan in recent weeks just before the competition started claimed one life, injured hundreds more and left millions without power. Hagibis is much larger and much more dangerous.

From RWC’s point of view, they may be thinking that moving a stadium’s worth of fans/logistics/TV crews out of Tokyo to another city a good distance away this close to the storm would actually be more dangerous than everyone staying indoors on Saturday and waiting it out, which is the official instruction being issued.

Should it not be possible to do get the teams on a pitch – any pitch – come Sunday, Scotland’s World Cup could be over.

If you are reading this from Japan, stay safe (FCO Travel Advice here). That’s the most important thing.

218 comments on “Typhoon Hagibis cancels 2 games; Scotland waits

  1. Campbell B on

    It is a distraction to the players even if it does go ahead. Japan have had time to get ready but still unfair on them as well. Fan safety is important, so what is the point of making the decision on the day, some will be travelling that day or the day before.

    The big question has to be what are we doing holding a tournament in a country that is prone to these weather conditions in the first place.That is the stitch up.

    You could not make this up.

  2. Sotonsaltire on

    It makes a mockery of the tournament- to non-rugby fans it makes the game look amateur. Along with clubs playing games during the World Cup: ‘It wouldn’t happen in football’ is what I often hear….

    Day one of rugby World Cup planning all those years ago. Point 1: it’s typhoon season in Japan, let’s have some reserve days, even for the last matches.

    The World Cup other than Scotland games has largely passed me by as the timings don’t work for watching it and the scheduling is a bit mad…. then again I am not the target audience for World Rugby as I already go to games and watch it on the tele.

    Can’t see this going ahead on Sunday. If Japan want to go through, as four years ago, they need to beat us. If they don’t then tough.

    • LollyPop on

      There are a lot of things that would not happen in football. Respect for referees, clubs playing during the world cup (why not) avoiding world cups in a desert !! Scotland, like every other participating country, signed up for the world cup in Japan, which is a marvelous country. If the Scots had turned up against Ireland and had gotten something out of the match instead of being mugged, then the conversation would be very different.

      • Campbell B on

        I think you are right , ithis is a blog about Scottish rugby so we only talk about Scotland but I wholeheartedly disagree with the heavy handed criticism. The competition is based on pools of mixed ability playing all their games. Every game is a risk and an opportunity. The fact England,France , New Zealand and Italy have not played and still progressed is not fair on teams who have played all their games. A game less may be an advantage , it may be a disadvantage. Who is to say who could have been injured for example in these games and not available for the next round. Perhaps some sides needed game time or perhaps they welcome the break. May I recommend you (and every other similarly intended posters) put your energy into writing to World rugby and ask them why they have organised a tournament in a location that puts Fans , Players and Press at risk .

    • Merlot on

      It’s only the pool games that they won’t rearrange. The latter stages they will change the time/venue for.

      • Referendum on

        Of course it would require common sense and a an actual brain to extend this to the rest of the tournament but no. Idiots running the game. This was a crazy policy from the start.

        Refs should boycott until matches are played. World Rugby would have to cave to that.

      • RuggersB on

        Yes.
        Its either a poorly organized sporting event OR an event that is not equal and fair to all participants and favors profitability and establishment.
        I wrote a long post, yet within the characters allowed, what I felt was an inoffensive balanced view on this subject…which was removed…which I find bizarre.

      • Rory Baldwin on

        There is a limit to deter essays in the comments – you can see the character count when posting. It’s possible you fell foul of it although it looks like you should be under it. Maybe one of the other things our system looks out for caught it. Having passed moderation, your comment should now appear somewhere above.

  3. Merlot on

    Although I don’t agree with them, the rules were there from the start. Why they decided that this was better than rearranging the fixture (either time or place) needs to be looked into. May as well toss a coin!!!
    The trouble is, we are the only ones to be adversely affected. Italy must be disappointed not to have a chance of getting through, however unlikely it was they would beat the All Blacks. And France could be disappointed at not being given a chance at beating England, but it doesn’t really matter as they are through to a QF anyway.
    None of the other matches which may be cancelled have any bearing on the tournament – not even the 3rd place spot which means auto-qualifying for 2023. I am sure Japan are almost as disappointed – not having a chance to top the group – but it’s not the same as being knocked out.
    Typical of Scotland – as if the weather isn’t bad enough here, we get knocked out of a World Cup because of it!!! It would be funny if it wasn’t tragic.

  4. TeamCam on

    It’s farcical that World Rugby’s idea of a contingency plan is “hope nothing bad happens, but if it does, cancel stuff”. I mean, how could a professional organisation be so incompetent? I’m sure the broadcasters are furious, and the sponsors, and the teams. There has been plenty of time to move the teams and officials (and broadcasting staff) to another venue safely, so why hasn’t this happened? It’s a joke.

  5. Rosco on

    Does seem an impractical policy from the off. I believe every nation agreed to the policy but the contingency planning is very surprising when you consider what’s at stake for the players, travelling fans, fans back home, tv organisations, sponsors etc
    Safety first for everyone in the area but a plan b is achievable and World Rugby for some reason have decided it’s best to cancel rather than postpone. Makes a mockery of the tournament but the top teams won’t give a hoot so it’ll all be forgotten in time. I’m sure the Italian players and the travelling support won’t forget. Possible adding Scottish coming Sunday morning.

  6. Martin on

    If I was in camp I would be using this as a siege mentality ‘addendum’ to the team room discussions. ‘They’ want Japan in the quarter final and have done everything to orchestrate it that way – if the game goes ahead, make them pay !

    Now reality might be that World Rugby’s preference for Japan to do well is indepedent of any decision they make in regards to the weather, but I would be using it to fire the boys up !

  7. little Al on

    Of course it’s safety first, and of course that’s the most important thing. But World Rugby should have put in contingency plans for rescheduling pool games, or not have chosen a country threatened by Typhoons. Why can’t they play on Monday? The players work so hard for a World Cup, some guys may not see another World Cup, it’s simply outrageous to send a team home without a chance to fight for their place in the knockout rounds. There’s just no point in the tournament if it’s not ALL decided by fair contest on the pitch. If I feel like this angry/disappointed in my living room, imagine the players, or fans that have travelled out!

  8. Tam on

    Check us all out getting pumped! I’m now having to think of my own contingency plan of how I get the day out of the office if the game takes place on Monday!

    • Rosco on

      Sadly I don’t see them moving it to Monday. It’s not in the rules to move it to another day. Can only be played on the Sunday. They won’t move to another venue as that would encourage fans to travel during a Typhoon. Not looking promising unless the Typhoon has limited affect on the area.

      • The Chiel on

        From personal experience, major typhoons don’t actually work on the basis that everything is hunky dory the day after. That’s why it should have been moved well away yesterday. As Rory says, everyone who is there – stay safe.

  9. Stu2 on

    I hope the SRU lawyers are onto this – they have had 4/5 days to make an alternative venue available – if Japan were in Scotland’s position this game would have been moved.

      • RuggersB on

        …or Japan!!!…..
        If they don’t qualify it would be a laughable epic fail on their part!
        Given every opportunity to progress on their own turf!
        Maybe, IF….they can even find 1 pitch to play rugby on in the whole of Japan…..WR org will make Scotland wear diving flippers and boxing gloves. Sounds fair!….sigh!!
        We have a better team …period!!

    • Andy_N on

      SRU statement clearly indicates they doubt the integrity of the decision making and feel the need to publically set their stance.

      • MK on

        SRU knew that in the event of Typhoons or whatever games will be cancelled before the tournament started. Nobody voiced, as far as I’m aware, any objections. Rubbish as it many be I’m sure there is diddly squat the SRU can do about it from a legal perspective…all in the small print as they say.

  10. Andy_N on

    Unsurprisingly, most of the ‘it’s just a game’ comments seem to originate from those associated with countries that are already qualified. Nobody is suggesting we play rugby in a typhoon, but by sticking their heads in the sand for the past week on this, World Rugby have missed the opportunity to find another solution. Gosper must go on the back of this.

    Really frustrating thing from a Scotland fans perspective, is that for weeks we’ve had to suck up all this p*sh from pundits about how Japan are favourites, Japan will hump us etc and this weekend was our opportunity to stick it right up them…but if it’s cancelled, we’ll never know, and the big Japanese love in will continue…the media spin will be brutal :(

    • Referendum on

      interesting that this does affect Ireland they’ll have to play New Zealand. i doubt they’d really want that would they?

      • RuggersB on

        I don’t think playing either New Zealand or Sth Africa offers anyone any real advantage. Both sides are playing very well and will be difficult to beat.
        Getting the chance to play them is a ‘nice’ advantage tho!!

  11. Tam on

    Och well to hell with it let them have it. But hang on a second lets remain positive guys. We’re on the up the boys have the bit between their teeth. There’s a confidence starting to brew reflections of two years a go when Toonie took over. Given the opportunity and the mind set that is starting to grow that strength is there and belief. Don’t believe all the hype of the home nation. The lion is Rampant. COME ON SCOTAND!

    • Andy_N on

      Lets hope one of the home nations…well, France, Wales or Ireland actually win the bloody thing then we can hammer them in the 6 nations on our way to a Grand Slam…I’d take that

  12. RuggersB on

    Its a unprofessional, disgraceful and disrespectful decision.
    Players like Parisse , who have given soo much to world rugby…last chance to play in the pinnacle of their sport with a chance of progressing to the next stage. Also the logistical and planning costs that each country has to subsidize .
    It smells of corruption… its naive and apathetic to believe otherwise.
    Its of little surprise to hear the establishment coaches (eg Jones , Hansen) come out and state their ‘respect’ of these ‘fair’ decisions in the interests of ‘safety’. Their teams are through now…and have one less game to think about and endure. If shoe was on other foot….you can 100% guess…that the game would be played somehow. That will never happen tho.
    To play the rugby world cup during the part of the year in which weather is annually disruptive is bizarre enough in its own subject.To then have no real contingencies in place to allow for disruptive weather days…to have no buffer and opportunities to reschedule….
    Either the WR org admit they make decisions at the level of a 4yr old during recess …or they make their decisions based on competition profitability and favoritism …NOT.. on grounds of equality and fairness of competition to all participators.
    They should just not bother with pool stages. WR org should just state their favored 8 teams pre comp in a knockout.
    Sad and disappointing way to conduct a sporting event in a world where people desire and hope for much change in general.

    • Referendum on

      RuggersB disgraceful is the word.

      Rob great article and loads of corruption being shovelled out now too.

      Check out a long thread on Twitter by Brian Moore.

      It seems Italy wanted to move the game, play away whatever. All Blacks didn’t. So to be fair for everybody it was drawn.

      What? Really? How is that fair to everybody? Utter disgrace all of it.

      And the last thing beyond the pale. Reason for New Zealand not playing it the next day? One less day recovery for the quarter-final? Absolute sham!

      • RuggersB on

        If those details are correct…. that’s just grossly unfair, anti-competitive and disrespectful.
        Honestly, it really tarnished the sport for me. I love the game in its truest form but Im soo disappointed…and especially for the Italian team right now.
        Its isn’t enough that we have poltical and corporate corruption issues in the world …but we have it in our sports entertainment now too. Sigh!

  13. Sam Laycock on

    Make No mistake, if cancelling a game would have led to the elimination of New Zealand, England or Japan then all the rules about rescheduling would be ripped up and thrown out the window in short order.

    • Mac2 on

      If the Japan v Scotland game can’t go ahead then perhaps as such widely reported genial hosts, Japan would like to ‘gift’ their 1/4slot to Scotland?, that would be a nice gesture that I’m sure the RWC organisers would fully support – I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen though

    • RuuggersB on

      The WR org stated pre RWC that contingencies were in place to deal with weather disruption.
      There has been no evidence of that so far.
      In reading between lines of SRU statement…Id guess that they have suggested legal action against WR org. Id think they could easily do that if only to re coup logistical costs of the tournament.
      Decisions like the ones the WROrg are making throw the ethics of world rugby up in the air.
      If the match is cancelled …from a personal view…if I were SRU.Id be thinking hard of removing the participation Scotland from future world cups. Ditto Italy.
      Sad for Scottish fans and players and extreme…but doing nothing would imply acceptance of unfair conduct. Scotland is better than that!

      • James on

        Why would we pull out of future world cups just because we don’t like how this one’s ended for us? That would only rob the Scottish players and supporters of opportunities to enjoy world cups, it would have no impact on the organisers or the competition and we’d just end up looking petulant.

      • Sam Laycock on

        You could easily argue that you could also include Australia, South Africa, France, Ireland or Wales in that. When it looked like the Ireland game was threatened the rhetoric was all about Robust contingencies. But I have no doubt that England as the biggest riches and most influencial union, the all blacks as the biggest brand or Japan as the host nation would absolutely have found a way if their elimination was at stake. Sadly for Scotland, Italy and all the other nations we’re disposable. very happy Sergio Parisse said his piece.

      • Tam on

        Is a draw not a ‘robust contingency ‘? Gregor Townsend believes the game will go ahead . We have some very negative expectations.

      • Scottie on

        We should support Sergio Parisse and bombard the RWC. Italy had a right to that match. Ok, likely they would lose, but that’s not the point. They have had some superb individuals who deserved to walk out for the last time at RWC. Who is to say the AB wouldn’t have some red cards against after being found out..

        This is no way to determine a World champion. Almost, but still a way to go, as our very own SFA in the ineptitude stakes.

      • Referendum on

        Scottie spot on. Something should be done about Italy they don’t seem to have the power to do a thing to stand up for themselves.

        Bombard them and make them think about this. That’s what I’m doing.

        Although this is a massive storm and by all accounts could wreck havoc. It would just be that it could (as storms like this can) change direction or as it hits land become a lot less violent and Saturday and Sunday are joyful peaceful days and World Rugby are made to look like crazy fools for what they are. Of course if that happens and they had moved the games so they could get played no one would have said anything against them but say well done for getting the tournament games played.

  14. Csc on

    Whatever happens now- the 2019 RWC has been de-valued. The eventual competition winners will know that luck and the weather was just as influential as their playing power.

    • RuggersB on

      Not much more I can add to my thoughts on this one…BUT…
      So if there is a disruptive severe weather situation in and around the Final match….the match will be cancelled and it will officially be registered as a draw?
      Will both the winners get world no 1 ranking too??
      They can share the cup …2 years in one 2 years in the other…is there a contingency to decide who gets first share?…nah probably not its the WR org after all!
      If it wasn’t such a shambles.. it would be a joke!

      • RuggersB on

        “We looked pretty exhaustively at all the options,” Alan Gilpin said.

        Oh really … such as??…what were those options you extensively looked at?? You cant disclose in detail what those options were? You don’t think its appropriate to disclose those details??

        This could and should get pretty ugly between SRU, Italian union and WR org!

    • Sam Laycock on

      Did you see the piece 1014 Rugby did on how the order of group games effects who wins the world cup? Basically they were saying that it was better to have your hardest games first then a rest before the knockout stages and for that reason they didn’t think England would win as they basically would have to win five tier 1 games on the bounce. So it’s hardly surprising that EJ is so magnanimous about the England game being cancelled.

      • Jonny Blake on

        We got our hardest games first and made a mess of it. Japan got us last, do you think Scotland are an easy game for Japan? That does not fit with your ‘Make no mistake , WR want anyone but us comments’. Your slipping up !

  15. Sotonsaltire on

    As much as I would like Scotland to walk away from the RWC 2023 in France if we do get stitched up, it would simply be an act of financial self harm unless the agreement says we get paid whether we go or not (I know we get a minimum from the lions even with no representation).

    Also, no-one else gives a stuff whether we are there or not so again, self harm.

    Saying that sounds like a plot from a B movie- team wronged in the land of the rising sun, 8 years in the wilderness(cue training montage ), the lion rampant roars again in (wherever the World Cup is in 2027). Until we inevitably lose to New Zealand as usual…… needs to be realistic, can’t go all Hollywood

    • RuggersB on

      I get what you are saying.
      To me though, the principle and ethics of world rugby are brought into question now.
      Is money more important than …people.. ethics..morality…?
      Id rather we reverted back to amateur rugby…if thats the case…there was plenty of quality rugby played in those days..in some ways better at that.
      Rugby is on the threshold of being anti competitive …like soccer/football became.
      What incentives will there be for players to compete at this level of a full contact sport, they put their bodies on the line for, if their fate is pre-determined?

  16. Grant on

    I think we are all , being a wee bit precious , here – if we had done our job and beaten Ireland , we would be through ( if other results stood ) , or were we expecting Ireland to also beat Japan .?

    We didn’t turn up for the first match , we,ve had forever to get ready and missed the boat , if we are out due to the weather , it’s 9ur own fault for not doing what the haste did and win our games

    We might not like it , BUT , if we had won our first 3 games and we’re being sent home for rain , then I might be bothered to complain .

    YEs it’s a cluster, but we didn’t do what we had to , when we has the chance , here’s hoping if we DO get a second chance we prove worthy

    • RuggersB on

      Whether we played well in a match is irrelevant. It has little to do with tournament decision making and competition ethics.

      • Grant on

        and forever we blame somebody else for our misfortunes ,

        We need to take account of the fact that this match is only important because we didn’t beat Ireland

        Sorry, tournament ethics be dammned , it was made crystal clear from the outset – if a game is off due to weather then it’s a zip zip draw

        Did we heed that and ensure we maximised our performance when we had the chance , no

        rather we wring our hands an complain about something being rotten in the kingdom of Denmark

        I’d rather we grew up and accepted , if we go out , our failure in game 1 was as much to blame as a nonevent in game 4 , if we don’t we will never progress , forever the bridesmaid’s bridesmaid

    • TEE CEE on

      We all know that if it was New Zealand, South Africa,England,etc,in danger of not going through then all the stops would be pulled out to get the games played.But it’s only Scotland and this would mean Japan definitely going through so no need to try too hard to put the game on.
      Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean that they aren’t out to get us

    • Referendum on

      Grant,

      Is that what you say to Australia? Who lost to Wales but went through?

      Is that what you say to Ireland who lost to Japan but went through?

      Go on tell that to France who have struggled though so far but got through not really much to do with them but they got to play the game they needed too before getting their game cancelled. They’d be out if they had played England earlier lost and had Argentina still to play.

      Maybe you could tell South Africa they don’t deserve to go through losing to New Zealand first up yet beat everybody else?

      The facts are that the one result that has gone against form in this group is Ireland V Japan which has made this group crucial more than any other that the games all get played. We still have it in our hands if we get the chance. That is all Ireland, Scotland or Japan want and is the minimum you expect in a World Cup. To play your games .

      I can’t get your thinking at all.

      • Brizzlekicks on

        Exactly this – I’m sick of this non-argument that somehow we should just accept this farce because we didn’t one ONE game in a league format stage of the competition!

      • Grant on

        Sorry lads , you are , I think caught up in the storm ,

        We need to stand on our own 2 feet , and to do that we need to accept that we cannot 100% blame a technical draw in game 4 , we need to accept our inept performance in game 1 has put us in this position.

        I want us to play , and win well on Sunday , but I want us to learn lessons going forward. – if we go out without playing we need to focus on managing what we can control, ie winning the games we have

        The other groups , are not materially affected , though I,m sure France would have liked a crack at England , to get Australia rather than Wales . And i’m Deeply sorry for Sergio Parisse as he missies his swan song against the all blacks . I don’t doubt if South Africa had won the opening match and the all blacks needed to beat Italy somthing would have been done , but it’s not needed , and sadly we don’t rate that level of pettifoggery

        But let’s grow up and stand on our own two feet , we will be better for it in the long run

      • Dinwoodie on

        Absurd comment. The problem is not about not winning first matches – which has everything to do with the schedule of pool games. The problem is definitively that World Rugby are treating the once-in-four-years World Cup like a church garden party.

    • JohnMc on

      Grant, that’s utter rubbish. It’s a group-based tournament with four games each before the knock out phase.
      Yes, we were terrible against Ireland but had two chances which we took very well to get back into it.
      If this Japan Test is cancelled then we’d never know whether we would have got out of the group. We’d never know because our fourth match couldn’t be staged. And our fourth match wouldn’t have been staged because of a monumental c*ck-up by World Rugby and the host agencies.
      We didn’t actually have to beat Ireland to still have a chance of qualifying.
      To link our poor performance in the opening match with the numpty competition organisation as a case for saying we don’t deserve to qualify from the group is unreasonable and, frankly, illogical.
      It’s all down to the first Test, is it?

    • Bass Rock on

      Wrong, I think you are just a WUM but lets dismiss you anyway but within the posting rules.

      I do not agree , your view is flawed. The tournament is designed to be played in a pool with sides of mixed ability and rating. That is the spirit of a world cup , it is a festival and a spectacle . This is not to say teams of lesser ability cannot get through as they can raise their games or have gained benefit form the camps. We have witnessed this with Japan and Uruguay as an example. The Knockout stage is designed to put certain teams together however in the case of England and France , we may not know who would have got to the next stage first and second (we could end up with mismatches) and they will have played one less game which may be raised by sides playing them (plus the All Blacks. ) It is fundamental to the credibility or the tournament that the pool is played. Sides have invested resources , they have stakeholders to satisfy. If it cannot be played , the spirit of the Tournament has not been respected and that will have much bigger consequences for all sides in the longer term.

      For what it is worth , the damage is already done with the cancellations.

      • Dinwoodie on

        Absolutely right, Bass Rock. The problem is definitively that World Rugby are treating the once-in-four-years World Cup like a church garden party.

      • Grant. Not a wind up merchant on

        A WUM , no , trying to give a different perspective , yes.

        Hands on hearts , if the group was EXACTLY THE SAME, but that we had beaten ireland and were through , would a single one of us give a hoot ?
        I don’t think so , we would all be rubbing our hands together and going , extra rest , great.

        Still looks at half time it looks like , even with 14 the oirish will get their BP win so all to play for or not depending .

        Now – I won’t be back in on this topic , but in the old days , people had a right to hold and express a different opinion , nowadays, apparently a contrary opinion is “wrong” a “Wind Up” – so please be aware of contrary opinions

    • Sam Stevens on

      Just chipping in here to say that Referendum is spot on here as ever, and that Grant is talking utter barnacles.

      It’d be an unconscionably poor decision to deprive Scotland and Japan of their deciding game, just as it was for Italy and New Zealand. The Ireland game doesn’t come into it.

  17. Gordon Orengo on

    As a supporter of Scottish sport for many years, as some of us say its the hope that gradually kills you.

    But to have my hope of Scotland qualifying for the QF, killed by a typhoon in a country that manages the outcome of each event on a regular basis. Plus an RWC organisation who has had 10 years to mitigate the risk and plan for rearranging pool games at a short notice, it is negligent and unacceptable.

    Murphy’s law if it can go wrong it will.

    This RWC will be remembered for the wrong reasons.

  18. CrazyP on

    While I agree on the points relating to contingencies I think we may all be a little more reflective and reasoned on Sunday morning if the predictions are on point regarding the scale of this typhoon. It’s looks like it could be disastrous on the ground.

    • Referendum on

      As many have said it’s not about how terrible the storm is. Take everything you need to do to keep people safe and cancel everything you need to keep people from venturing out in deadly conditions.

      But this tournament is spread out over a month and a half and at the tail end of the group stage with only one game to play for most, some had none left. There are enough ways of getting all the games played to a satisfactory standard. Closed doors, different area, delay it even two days is still workable if people want it to work. People who matter don’t want it to work that is the issue here.

  19. Referendum on

    This is Brian Moore’s Tweet from earlier.

    I’ve spoken to people from World Rugby and the SRU today about the typhoon disruption. The following seems relevant –
    1. All teams signed up to the tournament rules, but they were mindful of the ‘robust contingency plans’ said to be in place.
    2. The typhoon, whilst large and potentially destructive, will not affect the whole country. There are places where postponed games could be played on the scheduled days or shortly after.
    3. 2 camps – those wanting to stick to agreement & those wanting flexibility
    4. I’m told New Zealand, and this comes from the people I spoke to, not me, insisted on sticking rigidly to the rules because they didn’t want a shorter turnaround before the 1/4 finals. They are perfectly entitled to take this view.
    5. Scotland will argue that the force majeure clause in the agreement allows the rules to be varied by agreement of the participants and World Rugby. I’m told that Japan are embarrassed about the issue and would play later if allowed.
    6. Italy, though very remote potential qualifiers wanted to play later.
    7. Though the cost and logistics are difficult, the teams who want to play offered just to take their squads and ancillary staff.
    8. WR insist cancellation of all affected games is the only fair solution.

    • Referendum on

      This is his reply to each of these points!

      From Brian Moore
      a. Rules shouldn’t be absolute in extreme situations. No team created the difficulty but some are getting an advantage.
      b. Some say teams on their last chance should have played better earlier, but it depends on the pool draw. Some, like England, had easier games 1st.
      c. Unless it’s impossible, qualification should be by playing cost and disruption irrelevant.
      d. I know it is not simple to move squads and support staff but surely contingency plans did, or should have, anticipated this.
      e. If it’s too dangerous for fans, play behind closed doors. I’m sure fans would prefer this to their team exiting without a game.
      f. The wider rugby/sporting viewers have already reacted negatively
      g. In a flagship event, every effort, short of the practically impossible, should be made to play the games as drawn even if not as scheduled.
      h. I’m not minimising the gravity of this & sympathise with WR but this hasn’t been good for the game’s image.
      i. I’m constantly told rugby is a player’s game and there are players, long-serving and single caps, who will not have the chance to play in another RWC.
      A final point – your view will be influenced by your allegience. Would you, honestly, have the same view if your team was one of those negatively affected?

      • Saltire62 on

        Referendum – thanks for interesting post.
        Used to loathe Brian Moore when he played for England despite the fact he was a great player but have come to respect his plain talking and forthright views and he has summed up the situation really well.
        I see both Eddie Jones and Steve Hansen reported tonight more or less saying if we get eliminated because the game is cancelled its our own fault for not getting points on the board early doors in our group matches and everyone knew the rules before the competition started!
        If that is correct then that is just pouring petrol on the situation and is hugely disrespectful to teams who have been or may be eliminated without taking to the field. Would they be saying that if it wasn’t working to their advantage – I very much doubt it.
        Will comment on Scotland’s fate when we know for sure if the game is to go ahead but for now hats off to Sergio Parisse. A phenomenal player who deserves huge respect for the longevity of his career in a team who lost far more than they won. Hanging up your boots against the AB’s at the world cup would have been a fitting end even if the game had been played on a school playing field. A disgrace the game wasn’t played and for me World Rugby are a shambles and have also embarrassed the host country.

      • Campbell B on

        This is just an opinion and not to be taken literally, it is not legal advice, I am not qualified to give the same and the contract is completely unsighted. I don’t think this will resort to legal , nor should it, only lawyers win in court cases. The definition of FM is ‘unforeseeable circumstances that prevent someone from fulfilling a contract’. While this was unforeseen, it was not unforeseeable. That is to say , the region is frequently hit with Tornadoes. As a Tornado was it foreseeable it does not meet the definition. They contest it as ‘unseasonable weather’ however that would be easily refuted as this is still in the Tornado window.

      • Dinwoodie on

        BM makes sensible points – except his final question, which discredits the logic of everything else he says. People are outraged by WR’s lack of principle and planning. It has nothing to do with personal allegiance or which team is disadvantaged. Isn’t the whole differentiating spirit of rugby its elevation of honour and fairness?

  20. Not rocket science on

    Of course there are ways of planning and organising round this – its hurricane season in the West and Typhoon season in the east, people don’t stop working, organising and living. They will for later stages and should for group deciders. Nothing to stop playing and televised behind closed doors and/or in another stadium and/or moving timing. Might have lost to Ireland, but that wasn’t ever knock out rugby. Joubert / Australia last WC, this, plus threatened legal action plus shaming of host nation.

  21. Not rocket science on

    It’s time for the high profile players to say something alongside Townsend – Hogg, Russell, Laidlaw and McInally should demand the game is played. The team won’t shut up about how prepared they are before games, but now someone needs to extra influence and pressure there radio silence from the team… not the right way to be playing it

    • Bass Rock on

      Disagree : They should and must prepare for a game. They need to be in the right mindset for reasons of both safety and pride.

      • Not rocket science on

        Not if there isn’t a game. Obviously need to secure that first. If Hogg, Racing’s star and Mr Greig have profile that should be used.

  22. Bass Rock on

    The big question is who is the World cup for and why is it in Japan. If Wikipedia is to be believed Japan represents over 25% of the worlds registered players . We are doing well to maintain our rating given the status of rugby in our country and its low number of registered players .
    By developing that 25% World Rugby have secured the game and will gain enough resources to support the game world wide.We need to get more people playing rugby !

  23. RuggersB on

    Skippy Jones at it again.
    “We just knew that there was the possibility of a game like this during the tournament so we just wanted to put ourselves in the best position we could,” added Jones.
    “This is supposed to be a big typhoon, so I don’t see any other option that the organisers had.
    “That’s why we’re not concerned at all about the comings and goings of it, we think it’s the right decision.”

    ‘You wouldn’t let it lie’ …wouldya wee man Jones

    He must have no muscles around his jaw that guy. They just uncontrollably move in random directions and patterns.

    Interesting that England haven’t even played their most challenging team in their pool. They have played 3 poor sides. Must have been soo challenging to get those points in the bag!

    C’mon Australia!!

    Eddie ..maybe we’ll give England the Calcutta cup back when they get a decent coach….or not!

  24. Callum on

    I’ve enjoyed reading this thread, it’s killed a long bullet train journey to Tokyo. The mood here is a bit odd and nobody is quite sure what’s going on. Emergency broadcasts and safety advice are dominating the news but the eye of the storm is currently forecast to move to the sea by Sunday. It seems to be a question of what residual damage is left behind. The Japanese supporters are unanimously confident that the game will be played and this has filled me with some optimism. It’s also clear that the Japanese supporters don’t want to be robbed of the opportunity to progress on merit as a consequence of unfortunate circumstance. The Italy game has set an unfortunate precedent and it appears the game will either be played as scheduled or cancelled. I’m praying for the latter, otherwise my new kilt will be wasted! For what it’s worth my view is that contingency plans were theoretical at best and that world rugby can’t be seen to flex for games they think are competitive and scrap those that aren’t (see Japan v SA in 2015 which would probably have fallen into the ‘uncompetitive’ category).

  25. Rosco on

    Why could NZ decide if they wanted to play Italy on Monday or not. Surely it’s not their place to decide but the organisers?

    • Fraser on

      I believe NZ said they wouldn’t be happy to change the rules that were already in place – something that would need agreement from both teams.

      Seems a very negative decision from them, but fully within their rights.

      • Rosco on

        My point is, it shouldn’t be in NZ rights. The organisers are the professional body designed to make such decisions. Instead World Rugby empower the teams management to influence the decision who will ultimately look at whats good for them rather than whats good for the game.

      • Ewan on

        World Rugby are denying this happened – yet the decision is so obviously in favour of NZ (and to an extent England and France, who are also probably fine with some more rest), and against the 3 teams that wanted to play, it’s difficult not to be skeptical. If it is as WR say, then the bias is baked into the institution itself.

        And just when you’re calming down a bit, and ready to accept the postponement, here comes Eddie bloody Jones.

  26. Not rocket science on

    All blacks will have thought it through properly. At first glance they should have bent over backwards to play Italy, and avoid setting precedent, so they would face Scotland rather than Ireland. Conclusion they must be frightened of Scotland, lol. Ps don’t really think this for a second.

    • RuggersB on

      All teams, especially the top ranked teams obviously, pay considerable attention to their route to the final. I was reading pre comp about SA analyzing and closely watching Ireland …which says it all upon reflection!
      NZ would definitely prefer to play Japan than a resurgent Scotland side with a chip on their shoulder…I have no doubt about that.

    • Neil on

      He has a point to be fair, we should of beaten Ireland instead of complaining now should things not go our way, we knew this was a possibility.

      There is no way they will rearrange fixtures for some teams like us & not give Italy a shot against the all blacks.

      • TeamCam on

        He doesn’t. England got nilled by SA in the pool stages in 2007 and still made the finals. And WR repeatedly assured us that there were ‘robust contingencies’ in place.

        They should rearrange all three matches. They are profoundly inept. In their nonsense statement issued earlier they’re talking about having to rearrange eight matches, even though only three are affected. Our performance against Ireland is irrelevant, especially to Italy who have already been eliminated by WR’s uselessness.

      • RuggersB on

        He doesn’t have a valid point at all..imo
        So all teams should have qualified with 1 game remaining? Thats just laughable…and easy for a coach to say when they haven’t played a team in any competitive form at all. Our 1st game was against tier 1…their last game was against tier 1. Which of course it isnt even that now.

        Im not at all surprised now that someone got yanked for an alleged betting scandal.

      • BruceP on

        I disagree Neil, lets play hypothetical rugby for a second.
        We beat Ireland, without a bonus point but Ireland achieve 2 bonus points, we didn’t achieve the bonus point against Samoa and did achieve a bonus point against Russia, that puts us on…13 points. All other results stay the same so going into the final round Japan lead the group on 14 and we are second on 13, with Ireland on 8.
        A big win for Ireland and us getting no points from the Japan game would mean Ireland progressing from the group.
        Or Scotland win, we top the group and it alters who plays SA and NZ in the quarters.
        But a Scotland Japan draw means Ireland are out irrespective of what they do.
        Beating Ireland in the first game wouldn’t have altered the fact that the final round of fixtures is just as important as the first. It’s easy for Eddie Jones to say “it’s the rules” when his team has not been adversely affected and now plays Australia rather than Wales.
        Parisse said it best.
        If we lose on Sunday at least we’ve lost on the pitch and not in a boardroom like Italy – who can say with complete certainty they wouldn’t have beaten NZ.

  27. Referendum on

    Had a wee look at the ITV coverage this morning. Michael Lynagh sitting there with his moral high ground of nothing could be done. It is the right decision cause it’s such a bad storm. I’m sure he’d be saying exactly the same with his beloved Australia sitting in our position. Sam Warburton saying they should have changed it 7 days out which is sensible as they knew what was coming.

    From what they have said this is Hurricane Katrina like and there is no way that a match will be able to be played in a city that gets hit that hard 24 hours on. Katrina devastated areas for months and years afterwards. We can only hope that the storm changes when it hits land but it’s so unlikely now. I fear we are going home with having not lost a point for over 240 mins of rugby.

    An absolute farce, disgrace, and terribly sad. And it’ll still be that no matter what comes.

    • RuggersB on

      Yes.
      It should have immediately been moved to a ‘contingency’location.
      ..plenty time to organize..1o years really..and about as
      much pre warning as you can get in hurricane season. I lived in the hurricane belt USA and experienced before and afters.
      The whole thing is just pathetic and I won’t be watching another minute of the RWC unless Scotland are playing.
      The whole thing is a shambles ….either the worst organized world sporting event Ive ever known…or the most rigged. One or the other.
      If anyone wants to save themselves the guessing of who will win the 2019 RWC…just send a request to WRorg.

  28. RuggersB on

    How come a major tennis comp can reschedule an entire round of matches in a day within a comp lasting 2 weeks…and WRorg cant reschedule 3 matches in a comp lasting about 6 weeks??..with 10 years to plan for it. Granted tennis is played in a single city …but it still highlights the organizational incompetency of this RWC.

    Kobe has a retractable roof ffs! Absolutely no reason to have not played out the match there!!

  29. James on

    Why does Mark Dodson have to spout on in the press about legal claims and getting London QC’s involved to overturn any decision that goes against us?! Just makes us sound like the petty, chippy, joke that other teams already accuse us of being. Why can’t Scottish rugby keep these things private? He may have a point and we all want the game played but just keep it behind closed doors!

    • RuggersB on

      Probably because what WRorg are suggesting is a pretty serious issue for not just Scotland but Rugby in general.
      He has every right to suggest legal action imo. Even just considering costs incurred and preparation required for Scotland to compete in a RWC…a relatively minor (in terms of registered playing numbers) rugby nation. Let alone the anti competitive nature of the decisions being made.
      He is the head of SRU… why shouldn’t he say something? If he doesn’t ..who will?

      • James on

        My point wasn’t that he shouldn’t be exploring these options it was more that he doesn’t need to be going public with it now. The SRU has a terrible record of making public statements that end up being PR disasters. IMO it would have been better for Dodson to simply say we’re looking into all options.

        Similar to the comments on Jones and Hansen not being so sanguine if their position in the tournament was under threat, do you think Dodson would have come out and talked if legal action if it was the Ireland game and not ours that was under threat?

  30. Matto on

    This is a fairly dire situation. Not only do you have the usual wum suspects of Jones and Gatland stirring the pot, whilst sitting pretty themselves, it is setting up a potential awful punchline if we have these percieved pre-call off sour grapes, the game then ctual going ahead and then Scotaland losing. It’ll be a while until we hear the end of that, and there’ll be a smug snigger in the aforementioned quarters. The game has to go ahead, we need to focus on it and nothing else, we need to play our top game, and we need to win well. No quarter.

    • RuggersB on

      Yes…but it isnt just about Scotland…its about Rugby integrity. Whether or not the Scotland v Japan goes ahead. Damage done cancelling the other matches and refusing to relocate or reschedule.
      Italy would most likely have lost their match…but that just isnt the point at all.
      No doubt the media and blabber mouth Jones will spin it in a negative manner regardless of whether we win or lose. How dare we upset the established order of things!! ha…Jones is prime candidate for the unruly mouthpiece award at the best of times.
      Agreed though… we need to focus on that match. We need to just play our best and let the dice roll…the game will then have been worth the debate imo….dont really care what the outer media /public opinion is.

  31. Johnny b on

    Why don’t we wait and see if the game is cancelled before blowing up about it?

    Eye of the typhoon passes over Yokohama 12h before the game, I suppose decision depends how much damage it does or if it stops off for a bit longer than expected.

    Just keep shtum, focus on the game, see what happens.

    • TEE CEE on

      Don’t understand that stance.If we wait until the match is called off that would give us about six hours to “blow up”
      Have to make our points now

      • RuggersB on

        Exactly…
        Pro actively protest to a potential ruling decision that could possibly have been changed….OR…just wait, react and reflect on a poor decision.
        Why is everyone so passive aggressive these days??…crikey!

    • TeamCam on

      Because the Italy game already has been cancelled, invalidating any further results. This isn’t about Scotland, it’s about WR and their incompetence.

  32. Johnny b on

    Jeez.

    I think we should just stay humble and see what happens and above all keep a sense of perspective.

    It’s been lost amidst the gnashing of teeth, but let’s not forget that Yokohama is projected to be hit by a Hurricane Katrina sized tropical storm on Saturday.

    If that projection is correct, stuff will get levelled, peoples’ houses will be blown down and flooded and some people might even die.

    The aftermath of a natural disaster might not be the time to raise grievances about a cancelled rugby game, and if it happens I just hope that we as fans and a union remember that.

    This also applies to wind up merchants like Eddie Jones. There is a world outside of the rugby bubble and a bigger picture than using any opportunity to needle a couple of rugby teams you like to get one over.

    I hope we stay humble and see what happens, and if the game is cancelled perhaps understand that it isn’t actually the worst that could happen, what do you think?

    Let’s do ourselves proud whatever happens.

    • CrazyP on

      Everything your saying is correct but it it does not change the issue here. Awful contingency planning from world rugby and that should not be lost amongst the stories post storm. No one is arguing against the Sunday game being called off if necessary. It is what happens as a result. And that deserves blowing up over.

      • Johnny b on

        Ok fine.
        Hurricane Katrina killed 2000 people and dispossessed thousands more.
        We’ve forgotten in the 14 years elapsed how shocking it was that a storm could do that in a country like the US ie a country like Japan.

        That’s what is heading to Yokohama 12hrs before our game. The biggest storm in at least 60 years.

        Forget about all the other guff, forget about QCs and suing world rugby and let’s hope it’s not as bad as it could be, then if it’s not we can worry about the game or raising grievances with world rugby if it’s cancelled.

        Reasonable?

        If it’s as bad as Hurrican Katrina then the whole of the rest of the tournament will be played under a pall anyway.

        Seriously!

      • RuggersB on

        Ok for starters… I lived in the sth east USA when Katrina hit. Myself and some friends went to NO as voluntary assistance…so I’m in a pretty good spot to comment.
        Katrina was devastating. That it certainly was. Very much remembered in the USA and still saddened by its impact.
        However a large part of that aftermath could have been avoided with the correct planning, direction and responsiveness. Far too many poorly thought out decisions and speed of response led to the volume of fatalities, destruction, and post storm issues.
        The frenzy of poor decisions being made around this impending storm, and it could rapidly change from major to minor overnight such are the variables of a hurricane/typhoon, implies the world has learned little from it…and that is almost worse in some ways.
        Life goes on tho. Evacuating the area as quickly and effectively as possible is obviously the safest path.

        To be honest, if this storm is like Katrina…then the whole RWC will need to and should be cancelled.

      • Referendum on

        Johnnyb I agree with your on having perspective. But it’ll be too late raising concerns after the event. This is what isn’t learned if you want the outcome to change you have to get in quick.

        The majority of the rest of the tournament is in Yokohama so if it is hit hard the tournament could be cancelled. Wonder what they would do then?

      • TeamCam on

        Johnny B this isn’t about the typhoon, and there’s no need for handwringing. If you think that people are unaware of or don’t care about the ramifications of the typhoon, you’re sorely mistaken. But, as I’ve written above, this isn’t about the typhoon. This is about WR and their deceitful incompetence. This is about the integrity of the competition. It’s a disgrace.

      • Stu2 on

        Get off your high horse JohnnyB, we are perfectly capable of being concerned for the people affected by the typhoon and angered by WR.

        This is not a binary decision.

      • Johnny b on

        Stu2 maybe you should read some of the conspiratorial comments. No problem with people being angry or wanting recourse for INCOMPETENCE of organisers. That’s entirely justified IMO but…
        Saying RWorg are corrupt, they’d treat other teams differently or that they’ll use any excuse and the aftermath of a supertyphoon is not a big deal is ridiculous.

        Some people are saying/ implying that, go take a look….

        Oh, game hasn’t been cancelled yet either…..

      • TeamCam on

        Johnny b: They’ve already treated other teams differently: England and France got a contingency plan and we didn’t. QED.

      • Johnny b on

        Their contingency was to move the game 14 miles away and clearly didn’t work (no sh*t!) because the game is off right?

        What you are witnessing here is incompetence. Brings the game into disrepute, should be recourse.
        Is it corrupt?

        No. I do not believe that.

    • RuggersB on

      I think pretty much everyone wishes safety as the paramount aspect of this situation. I know I do.
      I also see little point in letting WRorg ruin rugby hiding behind public concern of a severe weather warning. Thats, after all, what they are judged on, their management of world rugby, not humanitarian aid.

  33. RuggersB on

    The other thing i have an issue with….is that if there is such an impending catastrophic storm projected as a direct hit on that specific part of japan….

    1. An official evacuation should have been conducted days ago. Therefore also an alternate stadium for the match.
    2. Do we really think we can hold a rugby match health and safety inspection 6hrs before it is scheduled to begin less than a day after the core of cat5 storm has passed?

    Honestly…this just gets more ridiculous the closer it gets! It makes a Trump investigation look legit.

  34. RuggersB on

    sooo…..
    A “force majeure” clause (French for “superior force”) is a contract provision that relieves the parties from performing their contractual obligations when certain circumstances beyond their control arise, making performance inadvisable, commercially impracticable, illegal, or impossible.

    Therefore the original contractual rules do not apply in this situation. Therefore what participators agreed to pre world cup is no longer applicable for this match.

    Like SRU said….it comes down a common sense adaptable approach. Adapt and accommodate the match for the integrity of Rugby! It should have been alot simpler than it has been made by WRorg.

    • CrazyP on

      A force majeure event is normally considered as something unforeseeable as opposed to unforeseen. This is an important distinction. In typhoon season a typhoon is foreseeable even though any specific typhoon is unforeseen (at the time of contractual signing)

      • RuggersB on

        You’re right …in typhoon season a typhoon is foreseeable. Why the F are we talking about one during a Rugby World Cup then?… Whose ‘smart’ idea was it..to have a 6 week long world sporting event smack bang during the ANNUAL TYPHOON Season in Japan?Then had 10 YEARS to think about it!!
        Crikey ..you couldn’t make it up. World Rugby Authority….. hilarious and yet tragic.

      • RuggersB on

        Just because they were aware of a typhoon doesn’t equate , however, to knowing its actual directional path, intensity and duration. Even the most experienced meteorologist doesn’t know that with 100% certainty. There are far too many variables at play. It could be anywhere from a small sneaky fart in the elevator by the time it makes landfall…or to a cat5 in which case there won’t be a RWC.
        Anyway, as per my point above!

        Even one of my mates several yrs ago and who lived there for a few years and doesn’t even watch rugby…said ‘ Isn’t the 2019 world cup
        being played around autumn in Japan??….Why??…Do they realize its Typhoon season!??

  35. Johnny b on

    RWorg probably thought the risk of a once in a generation storm passing directly over a match venue 12hrs before a game was pretty low and to be fair we probably did too, which was why we signed the relevant contract governing contingency.

    I’ve been reading about the last time a storm this size hit Japan, which was Typhoon Kanogawa in 1958.

    That killed 1,200 people, do you really think in the aftermath of anything remotely like that we would be demanding a rematch on the Monday and throwing lawyers around?

    I think it could be deemed highly inappropriate if we did.

    Let’s suck up whatever comes our way, get a sense of perspective and deal with it. We’re bigger than this.

      • SlimJim on

        I’ve just watched the most recent video projections which have the eye of the storm hitting Yokohama after a small North Easterly shift.

        Either way I’m glad we dumped on the Nations League now. Screw world rugby.

      • Colin on

        The idea of running off to lawyers does not sit well with me. I think it makes us look small and disrespectful to our hosts and the people whose lives are about to be impacted by the typhoon.

        There clearly should have been flexibility to postpone the matches – to Monday or even Tuesday. A four day turn around was considered acceptable so a combination of Mon or Tues with the QF on Saturday or Sunday should be no problem. The contingency planning has been exposed as pathetic. Plan B for England’s game was moving it 14 miles according to the

        Sadly, we signed up to the terms without properly checking potential weather first, or getting detail on the contingencies. Too late now, it should have been challenged a long time ago.

        I feel sorry for the hosts and especially Sergio Parisse and Ghiraldini (excuse the spelling), who have come out with more class than I believe we are likely to. Scotland have a great record of supporting tier 2 countries, right up to the present being the first tier 1 to play in Georgia, and we should protect that, be magnanimous, instead of threatening briefs.

        I am resigned to going out which is annoying because after watching ours and Japans matches, we are getting an edge and, well, I just don’t think they are as good as us. Whether by a bonus margin, I’m not sure, which would bring the risk and probability of refereeing whims into it. Another issue holding rugby back …

      • Referendum on

        Colin you didn’t sign it you didn’t go and be involved I’d imagine. Not much of a choice. It would have needed every team to close ranks and say something.

    • RuggersB on

      I also wish the legal investigation should have been kept under wraps. Who knows what has been said behind the scenes though. It may be that from what was communicated/ said to the SRU meant they had no option.
      My initial reaction to Parisse’s comments were not so much sensing a class response…but more a beaten down player left with no options…he actually sounded submissive to me…not very Parisse like!.. His words, or the interpretation of his words, really weren’t a whole lot different to what SRU and most of us are saying.

      In terms of our team, I agree, the signs from the last 2 matches were really encouraging. As if , we flipped a switch and woke up for this world cup. We are a better side than Japan, I believe that 100%. This disruption however cannot have helped our preparations at all.
      I have criticized GT pretty heavily prior to the Samoa match. Now I have changed my mind. There were some team plays and attitudes that seemed markedly different particularly against Russia. Like they had finally come together ..coaches and players. Japan is the acid test though , of course. We can do it!

  36. Fraser on

    My main issue is the supposed contingency plans which were meant to be in place – which have amounted to just cancelling games!

    At best it’s massively misleading and I find it very hard to believe the cancelled games could not have been moved to alternate locations/behind closed doors etc.

    Complete organisational shambles and not acceptable that there seems to have been no real planning for this sort of thing.

    • RuggersB on

      Aside from WR org making a total hash of what should have been a great comp….The mistake by the participating teams was to sign a contractual agreement for the comp….and NOT have the verbally promised contingencies written into the agreement. Scotland and Italy will be bringing a magnifying glass and a group of attorneys next time around.There will be no trust at all now.

  37. CrazyP on

    I would love to know what would have happened if the boks beat the kiwis or one of England or France lost to Argentina. I cannot believe for a second one of those 3 would be eliminated in this scenario for Italy or Argentina to progress.

  38. Csc on

    Whatever the decision re the Scotland vs Japan game – a bit of dignity from the SRU, Gregor and the Scottish players is the best way forward. World Rugby will deservedly be castigated for their inept planning and crass behaviour, so a legal slanging match would be counter productive.

  39. Johnny b on

    The grievance mentality really does us down.
    Sometimes it spurs us on but more often it acts as a burden convincing us we can’t win fairly cos someone’s got it in for us.

    World Rugby will not cancel this fixture cheaply. I simply do not believe they are that corrupt.

    Let’s hope this typhoon is not as bad as feared, apart from cancelled rugby games people lose their possessions and lives in these tropical storms.

    • RuggersB on

      Just because folks disagree with your thoughts and have a different outlook doesn’t equate to them possessing your creation ‘the grievance mentality’. It isn’t a ‘Scottish’ thing…thats garbage… people verbalize their displeasure at being treated in an unfair and disrespectful way the world over..people are people. I find it ridiculous when people say Irish people are this …Scottish people are that…English people are whatever. Its daft, naive and overgeneralizing
      Its interesting you keep using the word ‘us’ when in your context you mean other people and not you. Sounds self righteous imo. Anyhoo… I agree in terms of wishing for the safety of the populous facing the impending storm.

      • Johnny b on

        Och whatever.

        I can’t deal with the conspiracies – sorry Stu2 and Not rocket science if that makes me fannybaws too bad.

        RWorg have held a tournament in typhoon season with inadequate contingency and they’ve boxed themselves in with terms that could have foreseeably resulted in a farce.

        That is pure incompetence to the point of negligence in my book.

        It isn’t conspiracy or trying to unfairly dump teams out of the tournament.

        Glad I’m winding you up. It’s a balance to the people who wouldn’t discount the possibility RWorg somehow conjured the typhoon up.

      • Johnny b on

        Stu2

        “Make No mistake, if cancelling a game would have led to the elimination of New Zealand, England or Japan then all the rules about rescheduling would be ripped up and thrown out the window in short order.”
        – Sam Laycock

        “I would love to know what would have happened if the boks beat the kiwis or one of England or France lost to Argentina. I cannot believe for a second one of those 3 would be eliminated in this scenario for Italy or Argentina”
        – CrazyP

        “Would they balls. They would have rescheduled the game”
        – JP07
        Can’t be @rsed finding others they’re there if you want to look implication being that we’re falling foul of corruption/ conspiracy.

        We’re not, we might (might…) fall foul of gross incompetence.

        Different things.

      • Johnny b on

        RuggersB I can accept that if you organise a sport tournament in Japan’s typhoon season without adequate contingency then that is incompetent to the point of negligent and there should be some recourse if the game is called off but people are not saying that, they are saying it’s a conspiracy.

        That’s the grievance mentality.

        I think we should wait and see what happens. Japan is obviously a very organised developed country so they might be able to clean up in time for the game to go ahead.

        This is also a very powerful storm so there is a possibility this could be a significant problem for Japan as a whole.

        If that’s the case then rugby would probably have to take a back seat and we’d have to show some dignity.

        That’s all.

      • Johnny b on

        Ok Stu2 I don’t think the game will be cancelled.
        There we go.

        I think it would only be cancelled if Yokohama was really damaged and depending how bad that was could call the viability of the whole tournament into question.

        Otherwise it would be postponed.
        Total travesty for Italy, total incompetence but that’s what I think.

  40. Bulldog on

    I hope everyone is safe and I agree with World Rugby (WR) in terms of the emergency response. WR have placed a load of rugby people and media in a place where there may be injury and worse. I would like them to account for that but this in not the time.

    We should calm down and prepare for rugby, though I find it very hard to understand why on one hand we are talking about lives being lost and on the other we are talking about playing rugby the next day ! Feels wrong.

    Perhaps we should have told WR this is no preparation for a game of rugby, which it isn’t, and walked. As a consequence WR would have needed to take action to stop us leaving and force us to fulfill the contract.

    WR really do not know what is going to happen , so why prolong keeping rugby people in the area if safety is such a concern (which it is) .

    This action is just prolonging the risk. That way we would have highlighted the dichotomy and impossible position we are in.

  41. Caro on

    There’s a fair bit of anxiety in Yokohama now and tomorrow’s rugby match isn’t the main concern. Phones are pinging with emergency evacuation messages, in Japanese. We’re slightly reassured by the arrival of the Brave Blossoms suitcases at our hotel. Hopefully it’s a safe haven and all will be well here, but unless the typhoon changes course, it’s hard to imagine any rugby will be played tomorrow. Staying as safe as we can is our priority.

  42. Feepole on

    It is an absolute travesty, but there is a real danger that if there’s fatalities caused by this typhoon we very quickly go from being the victims of world rugby to being seen as crass and insensitive.

    May well be that the last thing the authorities in Yokahama want to be dealing with on Sunday is rearranging a rugby match for the following day, but WR ruling that out as a possibility is outrageous – particularly at tail end of the group stages when there aren’t other games going on.

  43. DJB on

    Latest weather predictions suggest that the typhoon will be past Yokohama by midnight. The weather for Sunday now looks quite good! Unless there is major damage which affects travel or the stadium itself, then I think the game will go ahead.

  44. TeamCam on

    The Guardian are reporting that the contingency for England vs. France was to move the game 14 miles away. Fourteen. Just let that sink in.

    The contingency for our game? NONE. And I write that as someone who almost never uses all caps.

    “World Rugby has repeatedly insisted it has “robust contingency plans” but has not expanded any further and on Thursday, when it was confirmed England’s match with France and New Zealand’s encounter with Italy were cancelled, Gilpin revealed there were not any in place for Scotland’s game against Japan.”

    Sounds to me like the force majeure aspect is irrelevant now: World Rugby lied when they said there were robust contingency measures, because there were none. For the deciding game of the host’s pool. For a knockout match involving a tier one nation. Just let that sink in.

    Assuming the report is accurate, we have been royally screwed by WR. Worse than that, the competition and the entire code has been compromised by what we could generously call ineptitude, and one could make a case for borderline corruption. Simply accepting this to appear dignified is ludicrous. WR need to be held to account.

    • Csc on

      A dignified response does not necessarily mean accepting the WR line. This competition is now tainted -it is WR who look ludicrous.

      • TeamCam on

        Worse than that: if Scotland sue based on force majeure and win, presumably that will invalidate WR’s insurance claims. Unless they’ve claimed and are covered for force majeure, in which case (presumably) that will strengthen Scotland’s case. WR has really screwed the pooch here.

    • RuggersB on

      … yeah if all that is true….imo what they really meant was… we have ‘robust’ contingency plans ‘if needed’ should you be one of ….NZ,Sth Africa, England, Australia, France, Wales, Ireland and Japan during the pool stages …and then obviously contingencies available in the knockouts.

      Anyone else …who gives a monkeys!

  45. Andrew Adam on

    As a Scotland fan I an embarrassed and ashamed. We signed up to the rules around cancellation. If the game is cancelled we should have gone out with good grace as Italy it. This is Rugby Union and the suggestion of legal action has put a lasting stain on our Union. The rules may be poor but they were agreed and in moaning it tains the Sotttish RFU.
    Those who brought us to this level should apologise and resign. If we cant abide by the rules we dont deserve to go through.

    • Stu2 on

      Utter nonsense, meekly accepting this appalling decision is certainly not the right thing to do. As for your “This is Rugby Union” – hello it’s 2019 – 24yrs after professionalism.

      It’s a business as well as a sport.

    • TeamCam on

      Well, maybe take some solace that the rules around cancellation are predicated on WR committing to ensuring that “robust contingencies” are in place. There were no contingencies in place for this match. Therefore WR have been negligent and, presumably, in breach of their contractual duties.

      We are not staining Rugby Union, World Rugby are. Regardless of whether or not our match goes ahead.

    • Ewan on

      Nope. This is all on World Rugby – the “robust contingencies” the Unions signed on have been shown to be a sham, and their attitude, and the attitude of many, many others in the rugby world since has been amateurish and the attitude of them and others in the rugby world since has been hugely amateurish and very disrespectful.

      The SRU haven’t done a lot wrong here – given it’s the RWC, there’s no way this could be kept private in any sense. And getting lawyers involved is the minimum the SRU should be doing, seeing as we’re talking about interpreting of contractual clauses.

      I would be angrier if the SRU just accepted being screwed out of the quarter finals by incompetence and intransigence from World Rugby without any kind of contrition or compensation.

      • TeamCam on

        Exactly, we’ve complained about SRU inaction in the past, I’m glad to see them acting. I’m saddened by so many commenters failing to actually understand the situation (on various platforms) or the crux of the issue. And the swathes of blatantly xenophobic and unempathetic reaction from other ‘fans’, not to mention their total failure to see the implications of this on the competition.

        Hot take: WR is intentionally tanking the RWC so that they can discredit it and reintroduce the Nations League…!

      • RuggersB on

        Team Cam….
        And you can bet that Scotland would now have to beg to be in said Nations League.
        I would rather Scotland just reverted to amateur rugby and be no part of all this nonsense. It isnt what rugby is all about…and WR org are ruining it with their obsession of profitability and expansion for money and media.
        Its soccer/football all over again.

        Its sad …the societal shift…nobody cares about what doesn’t affect them anymore!!

  46. Fraser on

    I’m getting tired of people across the media not understanding that you can have concern and sympathy due to the natural disaster that is happening at the same time as being angry that the people in charge have at best misrepresented the contingencies that were supposed to be in place in the event of something like this happening.

    It would have been perfectly safe and manageable to move the games to safe locations (which there are in other parts of the country) if the planning had been in place and the decision made days ago.

    No reason they couldn’t play behind closed doors if supporter movement was an issue.

    It’s a terrible thing that is happening, but without a doubt completely incompetent planning and decision making from the people in charge.

  47. Campbell B on

    Get watching Ireland – It could get very interesting. Red Bundee Aki. If you are shopping with your wife, get the internet on the phone and get to the nearest coffee shop.

    • TeamCam on

      Ireland in no danger of losing this match; they’re too good and Samoa are too pants. Looks like Ireland will overturn our PD, though! Benefit of having an additional game, I guess…

      • Campbell B on

        But they have a red , they have Samoa hitting them hard, this is a game I am sure they would rather not be playing. They might be willing to point out some issues to World Rugby , when the time is right.

      • Neil on

        The problem is all there best players have been raped away by other countries, and the pro teams are preventing good players playing also.

        Its a freaking joke & world rugby need to scrap or drastically increase the residency rule.

        Force the rich tier 1 nations (including ourselfs) to add to funds to support the island countries for god sake.

        & serious penalties for clubs caught trying to prevent players representing there country.

        The national game has become a joke.

      • RuggersB on

        Neil…
        I agree ‘smaller’ countries just being treated with irrelevance.
        Players being dictated whether or not they can play for their respective national sides. The protection of ‘home’ based players at the expense of any other doesn’t sit well with me either.
        I would be happy for the residency ruling and qualifying status to be heavily tightened up …of course only if it is a blanket ruling.
        Its getting ridiculous …players playing for every country with little no connection to it.
        The way WR org are heading …there won’t be any true national sides….just a pre-selected array of franchises… similar to NFL …whereby teams have no real connection to a city/country other than for marketability.
        All too many rugby fans following this route like lambs to the slaughter.

  48. Nodrog on

    The issue for me is there appears a decision was made not to have contingency plans in place to rearrange cancelled games in the pool stages.

    So lets cutout the bull management speak and I want the RWC to confirm the above!

    I know dream on, but for me this is the key point all this white noise by journalists and Rugby TV presenters that safety and lives come first etc, of course they bloody do but its not the point!!!!!!!!!

    • David on

      I’ve been trying to post a message on the stadium without luck. Nobody is admitting the Yokohama International Stadium is built in an area designed to sacrificially flood using embankments to protect Yokohama from the Tsurumi River. There is a good PDF report showing the aftermath of the 2014 typhoon with images the stadium surrounded by floodwater, Google street map appears to show glimpses the pitch visible from outside the stadium suggesting that it will flood as the area floods by design. The choice of stadium increased the risk to the World Cup and non delivery, the area is designed to flood. Read the report from the “Tokyo Development Learning Center (TDLC) program” in conjunction with the World Bank.

      • RuggersB on

        Thats interesting! I had no knowledge of that.

        The capture and release of footage of the Japan team wading through the water say it all.
        Just adds to the pot…

        WR org do not want this match to proceed….Japan do not want this match to proceed….Scotland do.

        If the match ‘reluctantly’ goes ahead….the refereeing will be interesting. Penalty Try for Japan!…Scotland are wearing distasteful socks!

  49. Referendum on

    Tweet from Chris Jones BBC Rugby reporter.

    Storm seems to have passed through Tokyo now with winds dropping. Fingers crossed that’s the worst of it. Gut says game will go ahead tomorrow even if behind closed doors. But dependent on flooding in Yokohama. More news in the early hours of Sun morning

    This is much more positive than could ever be hoped. Think the game could well be on.

    • RuggersB on

      …yep.. and then no one will see it!! Who will judge the refereeing decisions??
      TMO guy? …the guy that TMO’d or didn’t.. the last penalty in the QF ’15 v Australia?
      Thats just AWESOME!!….sigh!

      Media spin = Japan beat Scotland ‘fair & square’ …Japan ‘deservedly’ in QF.

  50. Not rocket science on

    Yeah a tonne of sensationalist reporting on this – STRONGEST STORM ON EARTH (yeah at the moment but not in past or future), let’s all pray for the poor souls of Tokyo, media endangered… accompanied by photos from other storms, the Japan team wading through a puddle and Brian Habana outside in the dark in a t-shirt (you don’t go outside in storms that’s how people get hurt)… The reality is if you look at the current data on JMO or tropicalstormrisk its only a cat 1 cyclone, in a well prepared first world country/city and moving quickly away NE. Couldn’t be more different to e.g. Irma etc. If used to cancel the game it would be absurd.

    • Tam on

      Wales on line have a clip of David Flatman outside his hotel in the storm. To me, it is just weather, a winter night in Greenock, but It may get worse. It would be handy to hear from someone out there, and please , no WUM’s on this one. We could do with someone telling us how it really is, not the sanitized news we are fed here.

      • Not rocket science on

        BBC reports it ‘could be’ the biggest storm in Japan in 60 years. Ok it ‘could’, if it was, but it’s not. Also reports 1 man dead in over turned car and 60 injured. Hmm, so in a country of 130m on a dark, wet, windy Saturday night they’ve managed to pull together 1 road death and 60 injuries. I’d love to see the baseline. Why are journalists such shysters?

      • JohnMc on

        We’ve all become amateur meteorologists!
        My app of choice is Met Office (worked well in Menorca last month) and according to that it’s not apocalyptic there now.
        Just WhatsApped a pal staying in Yokohama to get his opinion.

  51. Saint4805 on

    The sad reality is that there is a top table at WR and Scotland aren’t sitting at it. If the ABs, England, Australia, Ireland or the hosts Japan were on the verge of being knocked out because of weather then you can bet your bottom dollar there would be concerted effort to reschedule.

    People saying ‘Scotland only have themselves to blame for not beating Ireland’ are just using a cheap argument and probably have a vested interest in their own games being cancelled i.e. the ABs and England.

    • Tam on

      This pool , as a few of them are , is not about the top seed , it is about the middle seeds. Japan’s world cup final is about getting out the pool , so this was always going to be the big game.

  52. john martin on

    I firmly believe we’d have been too good for Japan & qualified (we may still do). However the planning of a tournament in a typhoon area/season & the lack of contingency is a cluster duck.
    Last night Edinburgh were shown what it takes to be one of the best teams in Europe……. Crosbie, Shiel continue to impress

  53. Andy on

    Early last week when it was known that the typhoon was going to effect the rugby, the organisers should have suspended the tournament for a week until the storm had passed.

    To randomly cancel certain games and let others continue is a farce when it is known that certain teams can be eliminated if their game is cancelled.

    The competition is not a competition if all teams do not get the chance to compete in all of their games. Italy have already been cheated. If this game tomorrow ends up cancelled I am done with watching any more of it, as it feels very little effort is being made by the organisers to help the situation.

    • RuggersB on

      Latest weather report for Sunday…..
      79DegF and sunny
      Windy in the morning; less humid with brilliant sunshine.

      Many people pay to travel to the Med for a holiday for that weather.

  54. Johnny b on

    Not the issue RuggersB. Issue is whether stadium/ infrastructure trashed.
    Going out this way would be a travesty but I still think wait until -if it’s reality before blowing tops.
    Dodson can make threats of lawyers that’s his job, rest of it just a distraction until we know.

  55. Davie Wilson on

    So we’ve had an athletics championship in which 28 professional and well – trained athletes dropped out of their event and in which athletes were doing a lap of honour in front of a handful of people – Michael Johnson was scathing on the choice of Doha, a rugby World Cup in which the weather has played a decisive part in the cancellation of significant matches, and an upcoming football World Cup in Qatar which is already drowning in controversy.
    Throw in the cheating which is going on across an even broader range of sports and I wonder why I bother watching. But, dammit, I do!

  56. Caro on

    It’s a beautiful morning in Yokohama after a very wet and windy day here yesterday. (If you’ve been on Largs prom on a really stormy day, you’ll get the picture!). Looks like rail services won’t be operating until midday though, checking for damage. The Canada Namibia game has been cancelled already, but it was due to be played in a mountainous area, prone to landslides. I’m more optimistic that our game will go ahead than I was yesterday. Just waiting to hear!

  57. andy on

    Its an absolute disgrace hosting a rugby world cup in a country in a month prone to hurricanes.

    What were the organisers thinking about.Why did the countries sign up. Did they just hope the problem wouldn’t happen…. money, money, money, bury their heads in the sand…complain later.
    Take the money, cancel the games, speak garbage when trying to justify their decision.

    Bring back amateur rugby

  58. Busy Little Bee on

    Game on. Bit disappointing, was enjoying all the moaning, bickering and recriminations plus the ensuing fall-out was gonna be great viewing. Italy have been shafted though so the whingers can still weigh-in there. Now for the match…Scotland win by 7.

    • James on

      We need more than that unless we get a 4 try BP and deny them one!

      I’m going Scotland by 9 with no try BPs for either team.

Comments are closed.