1872 Cup Pt I: Edinburgh 18-17 Glasgow

A big crowd, a festive derby at BT Murrayfield, high expectations. As Edinburgh have “Kylo” written on their shorts, I’ll quote Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi: this is not going to go the way you think.

After just three minutes in front of a hefty crowd, many there to see if it was true Edinburgh were indeed on the up, Glasgow’s fabled backline sprung into life from a simple set-piece lineout move and gave the home fans pause for thought.

Tommy Seymour cut a nice line through the defence between Jaco Van Der Walt and Phil Burleigh before spinning a nicely timed pass left to Huw Jones, whose first act in the game was to score a pretty simple try. something he does quite often at Murrayfield. Seymour later reverted to some of the odd mistakes that have dogged him since the summer but it was a breath of fresh air to see him in full flight again then.

Stung, Edinburgh’s pack put some effort into their next phases but in the act of clearing out Fraser Brown – who was himself in the act of conceding a penalty – Simon Berghan made contact with the head of Brown with his foot. The referee gave him half a chance but once the TMO was involved and you could see the prop looking down at Brown as he did it, it was always going to be a red card for dangerous play.

A look at the clock showed just 5 and a half minutes gone.

If you were looking for an underdog to support, Edinburgh were now that particular beast.

The extra man came into effect at the next scrum when Hamish Watson was banished back to the sidelines out of need for a tighthead, Matt Shields the replacement. An odd choice, but perhaps Richard Cockerill was wary of creating more space in the backline for Pete Horne and Jones to play with. Glasgow suddenly had a bit more impact at the breakdown but the requirement for an increased effort from Edinburgh certainly put some spice into the game; even the two scrum-halves had a dust up.

Irish referee Frank Murphy – himself a former 9 – awarded Edinburgh a penalty and Sam Hidalgo-Clyne got the home side on the board.

With the man advantage, when you might expect to see The Fast and the Furious 15, Glasgow suddenly developed the patient streak that has been missing all season. Edinburgh had plenty of ball but the Warriors were content to kick the ball to them, secure in their mid-to-wide defence.

Edinburgh in turn looked confident with the ball, Grant Gilchrist, Cornell Du Preez and “Bill” Mata carrying well, but they weren’t threatening the 22. Glasgow were happy soaking it up which was perhaps reassuringly professional if you’re Dave Rennie, but it threatened to flatline the atmosphere of a game that had promised so much.

Glasgow finished the half camped out on Edinburgh’s line. They were held up over the line twice and then with a nice set move lined up, Mata snaffled it when it popped loose out of the misfiring scrum. Edinburgh may have felt off the hook with time elapsed, but Glasgow had one more penalty and under the new laws, time for the lineout.

Again Edinburgh fought tooth and nail to defend, until Glasgow fumbled it and Sam Hidalgo-Clyne hoofed it into touch to the relief of the home support.

Half-time: Edinburgh 3-7 Glasgow

Edinburgh were organised defensively even with a man down, but Glasgow had the best of the opening phases in the second half. Alex Dunbar and Huw Jones almost combined successfully to streak down the wing, before Mata obligingly knocked it on in the middle of the park. Glasgow’s scrum clicked and won a penalty which Pete Horne slotted for, surprisingly, Glasgow’s first points with a man up.

Finn Russell is a player that terrorises defences at the best of times, so it must have been dispiriting to see him tactically replace Dunbar after 47 minutes but his introduction saw a spell of Edinburgh possession and another Hidalgo-Clyne penalty.

Edinburgh had struggled to find space for Blair Kinghorn and James Johnstone to exploit in attack, but they weren’t shy of trying on the odd occasions they did get the ball. The classy front row replacements for Glasgow were winning a steady stream of scrum penalties though, and Russell was able to kick to the corner for a lineout. Edinburgh didn’t engage in the hope the jumper Scott Cummings would move the ball back. He didn’t, which meant they stood off and watched as he grounded the ball for what would have seemed like a soft try to the gents in Richard Cockerill’s box.

Edinburgh had a series of attacking 5 metre lineouts just minutes later, and deployed a more traditional rolling maul that got Stuart McInally very close to the line before Nathan Fowles burrowed over at the second time of asking. Van der Walt converted and it was game on.

The Edinburgh crowd had a sniff of an upset, which improved the noise level, but Finn Russell was also starting to find holes and utilising his range of chips and dinky kicks. The game was opening up, when Edinburgh might have preferred it to stay tight. Glasgow weren’t as bad as they have been (and still won) this season but they were far from putting Edinburgh away as you might have expected from minute 6, making multiple handling errors with those last passes. A prime example was when Russell created a superb chance with five to play when he regathered his own chip, but Huw Jones misthrew the final pass to Lee Jones’ feet.

All of that left it just a four point game going into the last ten minutes, which when you think about it was almost a huge result in its own right.

But the home side weren’t finished there.

Edinburgh ended the game 5 metres out from Glasgow’s line. That setpiece had been superb all night under Toolis and Gilchrist and the maul duly rumbled forward, backs joining the effort until Frank Murphy signalled for a penalty. As Henry Pyrgos improbably applauded, Chris Dean broke from the back down the unguarded blindside – probably in hope of an advantage more than expectation – but when he looked round having grounded the ball, to his delight the try was awarded.

It was utterly unexpected given what happened in the opening moments, but all through the second half seemed more and more likely. Huge credit to Edinburgh for making this a game and ending Glasgow’s unbeaten run.

Richard Cockerill will probably enjoy his Turkey a little more than Dave Rennie this Christmas, even if Glasgow have a chance to put things right next weekend. He wanted to know about the character of this Edinburgh side, and he will have learned a thing or two.

Attendance: 23,833

Referee: Frank Murphy (IRFU)

SRBlog Man of the Match: Berghan aside, Edinburgh’s pack got them back into this game and huge credit should go to Stuart McInally, Neil Cochrane, Ben Toolis and my pick Grant Gilchrist who put in a big effort in the lineout and the loose. Mata was also excellent with ball in hand. For Glasgow Finn Russell breathed life into the attack and Huw Jones might have been in contention but for a few sloppy passes. The workrate of Gibbins and Wilson was missed.

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67 comments on “1872 Cup Pt I: Edinburgh 18-17 Glasgow

  1. Allan on

    Sheer guts from Edinburgh, impressed at how much Cockers has done to turn this ship around and put some steel in them. Weegies, hmmm, sadly look like a team without a leader or a plan. Fagerson is an absolute child sometimes. He can runble about like an angry hippo putting in cheap shots when he’s as good as Carl Hayman, not before!

      • Scrummo on

        Can play both sides at a level which is almost ridiculous for a prop of his tender years. Has started mostly for Edinburgh on the Tighthead side though and is covering LH at the moment due to the injuries to Marfo, Dicko and Dell.

        I can really see Cockerill moulding him into a ferocious front row weapon though as he has bags of ability and the physical attributes. This is what will push him beyond Zander in my opinion.

  2. Fraser on

    All credit to Edinburgh but Glasgow should have put that game to bed in the second half. Scrum and maul dominance with very little to show for the extra man. Far too many loose passes again.
    Edinburgh dug very deep and somehow pulled it out of the bag.

    I suspect there will be a backlash next week – hopefully switch out Pyrgos and Horne for Horne and Hastings (even if from the bench).

  3. Andrew on

    Disappointed with very overall quality on show. Lots of missed tackles, poor passes and reset scrums. Desperately hoping for Horne to impress as I had thought he had been harshly judged but too many errors like the missed touches.

  4. Andy Slow on

    All the plaudits to Edinburgh. Glasgow just awful. Dunbar is a key player and defensive leader who must play the full game. Glasgow and Scotland are hopeless in defence without him.

    Daft not to be starting Russell….

  5. Jamie on

    Outstanding defence from Edinburgh. Really like their stand off, he rarely seems to make mistakes.

    Bill mata and VDM are class. And what depth to bring on Ritchie off the bench.

    Well done Edinburgh.

  6. Highland Bear on

    Berghan caught the Turner stupidity bug. Brown, obstructing illegally, deserved to be cleared out but stupidity to apply boot to head. An epic effort thereafter by the 14 men (and bench). Disappointed by the Warriors, who failed to turn up and failed big-time to put away a supposedly inferior team (at least if one pays heed to the ‘experts’ on the radio) who wanted it more.
    Time for Rennie to earn his wage, kick butt and get a performance from a group who have been basking in their own publicity. The Champions Cup has exposed significant vulnerabilities in the Glasgow pack.
    Will be interested to see whether the Warrior Nation are of the happy clappy demeanour and willing to accept yet another sub-standard performance, this time in the local derby, or give the under-performers the roasting they deserve.

    • Alex Andrews on

      I’m a warriors fan and certainly not of the happy clappy demeanour and I will say that the performance yesterday was nothing short of utter bulls**t!!

      Let’s face it, Glasgow are the better side, we have more talent, skills and resource than Edinburgh but just don’t appear to have the heart that we had under Gregor Townsend, I like Dave Rennie but he needs to put some fire / backbone into this team in the same way that Richard Cockerill has at Edinburgh. You’ve got to give them credit they wanted it more!

      • Scott Johnson on

        Alex I dont think glasgow have the better players in the forwards or close to the depth of quality.
        Certainly in the backs they are better and have good depth their.
        Edinburgh backrow 2nd choice Bradbury, Ritchie and Hardie those guys would walk into that glasgow backline that was out yesterday Ritchie over Harley, Hardie over Smith and Bradbury over Vunisa
        2nd row is about even although glasgows is more lightweight.
        Scrum is close, Loosehead Edinburgh have incredible depth, Hooker is about even, Tighthead Is even aswell.

  7. Little Discourage on

    Very composed performance by Edinburgh following the red card. Demonstrates that Edinburgh really moving in the right direction but Glasgow conspired to their own defeat by playing like headless chickens.

    A depleted Edinburgh squad going into the game together with the red card actually gave Glasgow a bulkier front row (and much stronger bench) but they didn’t seem able or willing to capitalise on it. Glasgow need to develop an alternative game plan when their vaunted madcap style of rugby isn’t working for them. Since Kellock left they haven’t really demonstrated the ability to do the hard graft and stick it up the jumper.

    Horne had poor game and Russell flattered to deceive. Why on earth did he kick the ball when he had a gaping overlap to his left?

    The game was won by the Edinburgh forwards and good decision making at 9 and 10. They didn’t do anything special; they didn’t need to playing such a misfiring Glasgow outfit.

    All the more impressive given that the referee seemed to be blind to umpteen forward passes and offsides by Glasgow. If Edinburgh can do the double, they will be back in serious contention for third place in the conference.

    Note to “Warrior Nation”: you do not have divine right to win games so stop carping on about “time wasting” and “dull play from Edinburgh”. The moaning I overheard in crowd was not very sportsman like.

  8. pragmatic optomist on

    How did that happen? A smash and grab if ever there was one. Edinburgh ‘dogged’ it out, and congratulations to them, but some of Glasgow players really need to have a good look at themselves. Oh, and Hugh Jones needs to learn to pass.

    • Bulldog on

      Edinburgh deserve the bragging rights, hats off to them. 74 mins ,14 men, they will feel that next week, but for now , brilliant result , you may not need a full tank for this bunch of zombies.

      It was no spectacle, the only good news for Glasgow fans is , the ‘Johnnie come lately bandwagons’ might stay away from Scotstoun.

      Huw Jones does not deserve criticism. He is a cut above but he will adapt to what is around him soon enough, so steady on, you are just a few weeks too early.

      • pragmatic optomist on

        I can’t believe you’re saying that Bulldog. What do you do when a player butchers 7 points by throwing a pass above the supporting players head? Neither was it the only poor or unsympathetic pass he threw tonight. He also threw a couple of passes straight into touch as well. Happy to give him time to adapt to new surroundings, and I’ve always accepted the extra mistakes made by Glasgow due to the high tempo rugby that they play.
        But every player has to work on their weaknesses, and his passing tonight was woeful.

      • Bulldog on

        What I am saying is the problem is not Jones, this is not super rugby , it would be very rare that he pulls them up to his standards, he will need to fall to theirs. The time for pelters is coming.

        The back row , Price and Horne were barely making up the numbers. He needed to come from well back tonight .

      • Stevomc on

        This Johnny come lately comment is nonsense – the more fans the better. Do you want glasgow to progress as a club or is it only for those there at the start?

      • Andy Slow on

        Bulldog, I agree with you that Jones does need to adapt and will get better, but he’s not above criticism- he was poor yesterday along with his team mates and sadly that’s it.

        Also Stevomc is on the button. Get off your high horse. Not everyone has been watching rugby for years like you and most on this forum so maybe cut the new fans some slack.

      • Bulldog on

        Glasgow Warriors will progress and there may be room for everyone to watch them soon enough, I am glad you will remain committed whether new or old comers to rugby. Just an observation, the rise of the West End Warriors has brought some less traditional attitudes as some have noted in recent posts. Keep with it , its a good night oot.

  9. Neil on

    Im surprised the one time Glasgow did not go super speed and decided to play tactically was the one game when they really needed to stick to running the ball like crazy. Once 14 men they should of been going for gaps and quick recycling.

    All Credit to Edinburgh but it felt like Glasgow were trying to beat Edinburgh at their own game.
    Not going to happen with the pack Edinburgh had. Duhan VDM And Fife Really surprised me with the impact they had – Dont remember Fife having the balls to smash it into contact and gain yards before this season. The 10 looks tough as nails also. SHC really bossed the game i thought also and got into glasgows faces, would of been my MoM if not for a few Sloppy passes.

    These are the teams i would like to see for next week.

    Glasgow- 1. Kebble 2. Brown 3. Halanukonaka 4. Alainu’uese 5. Gray 6. Wilson 7. Gibbins 8. Vunisa 9. Price 10. Russell 11. Sarto 12. Dunbar 13. Jones 14. Matawalu 15. Hogg (Pray he is back) 16. Malcolm 17. Bhatti 18. Fagerson 19. Mcdonald 20. Cummings 21. Horne 22. Horne 23. Jones
    Edinburgh – 1. Sutherland 2. Mcinally 3. Berghan (poss suspended?) 4. Toolis 5. Gilchrist 6. Ritchie 7. Watson 8. Du Preez 9. SHC 10. Van der Walt 11. VDM 12. Burleigh 13. Johnstone 14. Ghraham 15. Kinghorn 16. Cochrane 17. Sheilds 18. Mcallum 19. Mata 20. Bradbury 21. Fowles 22. Johnstone 23. Fife

    For Glasgow Seymour Desperately needs a mental break i feel, he clearly is just not 100 % for a few months now. And injury updates btw – i think wilson gibbins and hogg and back soon which is why i have added them. Any News on Ashe or Faegerson though ? ive not been overly impressed with vunisas workrate so far. Id like to see what Jones can do with a familiar 9-12 inside him and 2 serious danger wingers outside him.

    For Edinburgh i think their is alot of the squad you can swap in and out and comsider them first choice. ritchie deserves a start. would be exciting to see graham with abit of space on the plastic surface. Exciting times now that edinburgh are starting to look more like the real deal.
    Also i was close to adding bennet in but think the kings game the week after would be better for returning game. Any news on when Dell and Dickinson and Marfo will be fit again ?

  10. JohnMc on

    Well done, Edinburgh! Couldn’t watch because of a family do so had to rely on sneaky peeks at the Iphone to get score updates. Didn’t know until just now that Embra were a man down for 74 minutes. At this level of rugby, that’s some achievement.
    In other news, London Scottish drew 52-52 with Bedford. I wonder if that’s a record score draw in a senior game?

  11. Lochinverboy on

    As a Glasgow fan, this was coming. Townsend in his last year attended to the forwards. Come Sarries it came unstuck for only one reason. Favaro, Strauss, Gray not available. Glittering backs operate on the back of a good scrum. He talks about community. A paper exercise. Edinburgh with 14 men demonstrated team spirit and an esprit de corps that blew our wannabe superstars away. Want to operate at the top table? Get it right up front and get the attitude right. Good for Cockerill. Rennie is the supposed super coach but he was pumped tonite by the “team ethos” he promotes. A salutory lesson.

  12. Matto on

    I watched this on the phone on the way to the inlaws – providing some welcome pre-emptive joy. At least at the end. After the first try and the red i thought the game was ruined, though couldn’t argue with the decision. Amazed and impressed that Edinburgh managed to survive and claim it. Far from a perfect game and would have loved 80 of 15 x 15, as well as fewer inaccuracies. However, enthralling stuff and looking forward to the next leg. Nice one Edinburgh!

  13. Warks Scot on

    Dave Rennie must be fuming, the Glasgow pack just didn’t turn up. Just seemed to lack any idea on how to change their game to exploit their numerical advantage. MoM – Mata for me, some huge hits & just offered himself time & again to batter into the Glasgow defence. Edinburgh defended fantastically well against the lacklustre opposition but didn’t really offer any threat themselves – not the greatest advert for Scottish rugby but maybe that’s just theses 1872 games. I reckon the weggies will lay into Embra something crazy the next leg, they’ve got to salvage some respect and credibility.

    • Bulldog on

      Rennie should have a look in the mirror , the second half started as dire as the first and the subs were too late. The new Tighthead looked to me like the only man with an idea how to adapt, he looks like he could soften a few ribs in defense and carried well.

  14. john on

    Some musings

    Glasgow really missed Stuart Hogg, he is crucial to this team.

    Glasgow really missed Callum Gibbins, he is crucial to this team.

    Edinburgh tackled exceptionally well & RC proved a astute tactician after the red card. (Berghan let himself down)

    Glasgow really need some serious grunt to create the platform for the backs to shine, (for a big laddie , Vunisa , hasn’t done this yet)

    The ball simply didn’t go to hand in crucial plays, Huw Jones is approaching world class, not sure what happened

    Poor decision not to start Russell. P.Horne didn’t play well.

    Is Matt Shields Scottish?

    Murray McCallum could well have to get ready for Cardiff in early Feb….

    Next week will be interesting.

    • Bulldog on

      Where did Vunisa come from ? The girl guides perhaps ? his body position is weak in ruck and scrum He will need to do a lot more to earn a badge for set piece and loose.

      No problem getting a badge for ‘making up numbers’. He should stick to crafts and homemaking badges. He is not at home on the pitch and he stitched us up.

      Hogg is what he is , but we cannot depend on him. We haven’t needed him in many games, the half backs and centre are lethal. Glasgow played behind the gainline all night.

      I am surprised we are not talking about the last try, it was just the most incredible debacle I have ever seen, however , it had an air of inevitability about it from 70 minutes so perhaps like me , you were just relieved it was over.

      Glasgow , for whatever reason, did not want this game , Suggestions on a postcard !I will start :

      *10 from 10 , cannot handle pressure
      *contract negotiations concluding in the preparation.

      • TeamCam on

        We needed Hogg in those two Montpellier games, I reckon. And could have done with nuHogg – the Hogg who played the ABs and acted like a leader – last night. Still, it shouldn’t come down to needing one player.

      • Highland Bear on

        Re the last try, any idea what Pyrgos was up to applauding his forwards dragging down a driving maul metres from their own line and conceding a penalty?

  15. TeamCam on

    Congrats to Edinburgh! Even though I’m primarily a Glasgow supporter, I want to see both teams do well (sadly that didn’t happen last night…) and love an underdog victory. Glasgow did what they’ve done all season – left tries out there through some awful handling errors – and Edinburgh did what they’ve been increasingly doing: playing like bastards (in a good way). Yes, there were a couple of soft tries conceded by both sides, and the game was pretty crap to watch, but the last try and the Edinburgh players’ elation was good to see. Also thought the ref generally had a good game, even if he was reluctant to RC Berghan. I think that had Berghan not been sent off, Glasgow might have won that…

    As others have noted, it was an odd time to stick to a more structured game plan given that Edinburgh were down a man, and it shows an inability of the team (and coaching staff?) to adapt. Is Rennie struggling to get the players to do what he wants? From what he’s said this season, that seems to be the case. Still, there’s potential there, and it was good to see The Nuke and Kebbles ‘n’ Bits on finally – they actually won us some scrum penalties and everything! Russell kicking with such a huge overlap to his left isn’t mercurial, it’s just stupid. And painful. I think it’s also indicative of a lack of mental strength from Glasgow – if things don’t go just right, they start panicking.

    Edinburgh were pragmatic and effective. Very much up for this game and unwilling to allow the trifling matter of a red card stop them (a stark contrast to Glasgow’s home game against Montpellier). van der Merwe was rather good, McInally and Gilchrist were very good, too, SHC was up for it, Sutherland looks to be getting back into it (although appeared to injure his shoulder) – all very positive. It seems like Cockers is turning them into a good, strong team who are able to conjure up moments of magic.

    Hopefully the return leg will be more exciting and a better advert for Scottish rugby. I’d like a Warriors win, partly because of allegiance and partly because it’ll add a little spice to the final game of the season!

    • pragmatic optomist on

      I agree with you about the kick made by Russell. He had a 5 to 2 overlap and he thought kicking it was the thing to do? He’s a talented boy, but he clearly can’t count.

    • TeamCam on

      Thinking about it, I take back my comment about the ref, as he ignored forward passes from GW and didn’t even suggest a team yellow for the plethora of penalties conceded by Edinburgh.

  16. Stevomc on

    I thought yesterday highlighted the fact that glasgow have not really come up against any full strength teams in the Pro14. They’ve done well, but when they have been properly tested in Europe it hasn’t been good enough.

    The rolling maul defence is a big weakness and there aren’t the forwards to punch big holes. Jonny was carrying with his usual lean and getting pushed across the park or brought down immeadiately, not creating damage. I think Gilchrist showed a lot more drive and created more damage and should be in the scotland starting XV on merit.

    • Stu on

      Dream on Gilchrist in the Scotland XV based on one match – he’ll be back to his ruck inspector general best soon enough.

      • Scrummo on

        I’d certainly say Gilchrist won the battle last night actually. If he stays fit and that is a big if then he should build back to his best form which is great for Scotland as he will push Jonny Gray all the way. He’s a man mountain adds a level of grit, leadership and physicality which the Grays just dont. Their other talents are many though so I’m not suggesting they’re worse players but Gilchrist has enough to offer to be mentioned in the same vein if he is at his best.

      • Rich on

        I think that comment clearly indicates you have seen little of Edinburgh or Gilchrist this season. He very much is beginning to show the form that had him in contention for the Scotland captaincy (pre injury).

        He’s been revitalised under Cockerill and could easily be in the Scotland squad (not necessarily starting, yet) on merit.

    • Highland Bear on

      If yesterday’s match had been an old-fashioned Scotland trial, which locks would the selectors be choosing based on their performances? Gilchrist and Toolis in my eyes.
      Looking forward to next Saturday. Rennie must start with his first XV, although some coming back from injury may be undercooked. The backrow was outplayed by Edinburgh and I would expect major changes there.
      Warrior Nation will engender a hostile atmosphere at Scotstoun but Cockerill will have Edinburgh wound up as underdogs and another victory will cause Townsend massive selectorial problems.
      SHC outplayed Price and another dominant display will see him on the bench at worst.

    • pragmatic optomist on

      I find it quite amusing that some Edinburgh fans decide that when they win a game, it’s time to put forward Edinburgh players as clear Scotland starters. Absolute nonsense. Where has Gilchrist been in the last 2 years. Mostly injured is the answer. One game wonders don’t cut it I’m afraid.

      • Rich on

        As I’ve mentioned to another poster earlier, the suggestion that Gilchrist is being put forward as a Scotland starter is not based on one game, he has been solid this season so far, and did well when he played for Scotland in the autumn. I’m not suggesting he’s a nailed on starter for Scotland, as I think J.Gray and Toolis are probably 1st choice currently, but I would say Gilchrist is beginning to challenge again and could easily be in contention.

  17. john on

    I didn’t see the desperation to win that Scotland have & Glasgow had been having, Gibbins & Hogg are leaders, lead by example & they were sorely missed over the last month.

    I’ve said it before but Josh Strauss shouldn’t have been allowed to leave.

    Slightly concerning for Glasgow next season without Russell.

    Last night (as been mentioned above) was THE time to play the high tempo off loading Super Rugby style but they didn’t.

    Still from an Edinburgh perspective its looks very promising & if anything its nice to have a wee mixture – freewheeling Glasgow, pragmatic powerful Edinburgh.

  18. Fraser on

    I still find it mystifying that Russell wasn’t started in such a big (even if only in the media) game. There were always going to be a lot of public interest and a magnifying glass on the performances.

    Makes me wonder if Russell is either carrying a niggle or if Rennie is really focusing on next year and sidelining Russell to give Horne more game time (which is crazy in my opinion) and looking at his options.

    Are Glasgow really going to operate with Horne as their main 10 next year (presumably with Hastings as back up) or are we going to see a Kiwi (or other overseas player) brought in as a replacement?

    • Scott Johnson on

      Rumours are going around that they will be looking at Quade Cooper – He plays a similar wacky way to russell, is international class and is out of favour with the direction the reds are looking to go.

  19. john on

    Re Glasgow’s 10 next year – Horne Hastings Thomson in that order seems to be the current position.
    Can any of the Glasgow season ticket holders tell me if they are entirely convinced………………………….I’m not.

    Re Edinburgh 10 – I’d personally release Weir & Tovey, Hickey VDW & Kinghorn is sufficient.

    • Alex Andrews on

      At Glasgow I would say that having watched Adam Hastings for a few years now he is ready for the No.10 shirt, Horne to me is a has been and should be kept for either a No.12 emergency or a bench option and Thomson is very much an unknown quantity.

      • Ian on

        Alex – I agree with you about Hastings. He is quick and elusive as a runner and kicks well. He runs a game and talks to the players around him like a leader. If he continues like this he should be in the frame for the US and Canada tour next summer.

        I love Fin’s play but I also think his rugby brain is still undercooked…it would be handy to have another quality 10 in the mix for the Scotland shirt.

  20. Scott Johnson on

    Players i would look to see leave Glasgow at the end of the season. based on this years performances or lack of appearances.

    Grant
    Fusaro
    Mcarthur
    Swinson
    Peterson
    Vunisa
    Prygos
    Masaga
    Tagive
    Grigg

    Players i would like to see in. (Obviously we cannot get them all)

    Jon Welsh
    Nakarawa or Richie Gray (our big signing)
    Luke Hamilton
    Josh Strauss
    Ben Vellacot
    Quade Cooper or Ihaia West
    Some fast guy who can play 15. Ruir does well but dosent fit the teams style in that aspect.
    Player we may aswell bring in if they are out of favour with edinburgh.

    John Hardie and bring back Duncy weir.

    We need some fire and passion in the forwards when Wilson and Gibbins not available.

  21. NorthI127 on

    Like many Warriors supporters, I suspect, I thought after Berghan left that we should win by at least 20 points. We are not as good as we thought and a few key players had off days or seemed complacent or unfocussed eg the final Embra try. I remain unconvinced by Jonny as a captain. Gibbons as 7 and captain would have made a big difference as would Wilson. How many scoring chances did we butcher? The Finn kick through for Lee Jones when all we needed to do was put it through the hands summed up our attack.
    A lot of folk have been very negative about Pyrgos recently and last night I joined them. Price was way off his best but hopefully a one off. George Horne for the bench at Scotstoun with Finn and Ali as the starting half backs.
    Another thought, if Hastings is the future at 10 (as he may well be) he is not going to get there playing for Currie Chieftains most weeks!

    Having written all that, it is great for Scottish rugby that at very long last Edinburgh no longer look a lot less than the sum of their parts. Cockerill’s personality is there to see in how they play.

    • FF on

      Cockerill has done a superb job with Edinburgh and hopefully Scotland will enjoy the benefits of guys like McInally, Toolis, Gilchrist stepping up in the next 6N too.

      Rennie really has to earn his crust now – it’s not quite a crisis but a couple more performances like that and it will be.

      • Gavin Brown on

        I think Rennie might just slip up as Glasgow coach, I had tipped him for the Scotland job (should Townsend falter) but he appears to be instilling some form of arrogance into this side which makes them assume that they will win every match – Simply not good enough when you come up against a side coached by a English ‘hooligan’

  22. Rosco on

    Could some please explain what was going on with the Edinburgh forwards during the Cummings try. Either a generous xmas present or they uncontested for a reason but Glasgow walked over for a try.

    My guess was they were hoping that there was a Glasgow player infront of the ball carrier but this wasn’t the case?

    Looked embarrassing for Edinburgh and not good for the game but curious to know.

    Thanks

    • FF on

      Yes you’re right it was a tactic to defend a rolling maul. If the defending side don’t engage and the attacking side move the ball backwards to set up the maul the players ahead of the ball carrier are offside and a defender can also come round the non-maul and tackle the ball carrier. Problem for Edinburgh was that Scott Cummings held onto the ball as Edinburgh avoided contact, McInally came round and tackled the player he thought would have it. Edinburgh needed to play what was happening in front of them instead of what they expected to happen.

  23. Rosco on

    On a separate note it was my first time I’d been to a Pro match in a number of years. I was appalling at the bad language from some spectators from Glasgow. Resembled the behaviour seen at football matches.
    It was relentless and spoilt the occasion for me and doesn’t encourage me to return quickly.

    Is this becoming a problem or was I unlucky?

  24. Big Al on

    Hogg and Russell are talisman that make the rest of the Glasgow backs tick. If neither starts there is no spark that scares opposition defences.
    Glasgow was struggling for leaders yesterday. Grays game suffers when he captains! Hopefully more player will be back for the return fixture.

  25. john on

    A Boxing Day team prediction for Scotland’s Cardiff trip in just over 5 weeks,
    15.Hogg, 14.Maitland, 13.H.Jones, 12.Dunbar, 11.McGuigan, 10.Russell, 9.Price, 8.DuPreez, 7.Watson, 6.Barclay, 5.J.Gray, 4.Toolis, 3.Berghan, 2.McInally, 1.Marfo
    Replacements –
    SHC, P.Horne, Kinghorn, L.Hamilton, Gilchrist, Fagarson, Brown, Bhatti

    Kinghorn is my wildcard, he’s young, not perfect, unknown in Wales but unquestionably has the x factor, perfect if Wales continue their quest to copy our running game.

  26. Highland Bear on

    Can’t understand why Rennie has allowed his flops an extra day off today while Cockerill has his squad back hitting the tackle bags and getting tuned in for another derby. Beginning the share in the germs of doubts as to whether Rennie is the right person for the Warriors job. The messages post match don’t seem to reflect how bad the performance was on Saturday, and things will be put right. Another defeat on Saturday and its a crisis, albeit one not yet fully out of control.
    Russell has to start, whether or not he is out of favour, since he makes things happen and half-gaps in the defence opened up, although the Edinburgh scramble defence just about coped.
    Glasgow superiority in the scrum row should be anticipated, given Edinburgh are down to 3rd/4th choice props, but they desperately need Gibbins & Wilson back to have a competitive back row.

  27. Nicholas on

    Lots of Scottish objections posted on the BBC team of the year page. Understandably in my opinion, very few Scots put forward and a rather insulting selection of Welsh and Australian players too. For example Dan Biggar and no Fin Russell to select. The general concesus south of the border (I live in London) is that the Scots have a good team going, but individually Stuart Hogg is the only world class player north of the border.

    Anyway, whether you agree with it or not it’s quite clear that the BBC are of a similar mind. If you listen to Chris Jones and Ugo Monye’s 5Live podcast last week they discuss the world’s best XV and Hogg is the only mentioned Scottish player.

    I wonder, are they correct? Also, if (a big IF) Scotland were to win 6Nations 2018 do you think they would come round to appreciating that the Scots have produced more world class talent than Hoggy? It would they put it down to a lucky string of results?

    This, in light of Lions selection ignorance is quite a resentful combination it must be said.

    • Neil on

      They are not correct, Barclay and Watson are in the mix from the forwards, i cant remember any time this year watson has not been the most dominant 7. The only reason Finn Russell is not nominated is because Gatland is an idiot and didint pick him for the lions. he has cause every team he has played against this year internationally problems and opened them up.
      Hogg Deserves his spot and the only person who could of challenged him was Izzy Falou but missed the november series.

      I think if we had gotten fair representation on the lions 3-4 more scots would be around that team of the year. Its probaly a good thing though (look at the impact howleys coaching had on seymour)

      I can see a few potential people for 2018s team of the year if we keep getting good results to be aknowleged.

      Mcinally
      Toolis
      Watson
      Russell
      Jones
      Hogg

      Those guys have excelled since the summer and have not been beaten by their opposite numbers.

      Russell just needs consistency but i think that is every 10s issue.

      • Alanyst on

        Yes…due award is nice to receive (and some are probably due) but team dynamics I think work best without them. At least not till end of season.

    • Alanyst on

      I think we should not care how much we are underestimated by others. If we have a great team that wins then individual talent is not relevant.

      Rugby is the most team-y of the major team sports so the mission is well on track.

      • Nicholas on

        Alanyst, fair point. It’s just frustrating when other fans don’t give Scottish players the respect they deserve. Especially after the farce that was the BIL selection.

        However, I don’t think that any home nations coaches/players will be underestimating the Scots. They are well drilled, committed and intelligent professionals.

    • 1.8T on

      To be honest, for the actual XV Hogg would probably be the only one I would pick if I take off my saltire specs. But and its a big but, there are definitely more Scottish players who should be in the short list. Despite his recent indifferent form Seymour should be in there as should Russell, one or both of the Grays, Price and I dare say Zander Fagerson.

      Re your point about IF we were to win the 6N, yes it would make a difference. Its the same old story about reputation and form. The same reason so many Welsh household names made it on the Lions tour despite being cack recently. Being part of a winning team makes the individuals look better than they sometimes are, e.g. take Jamie Roberts, has scored many tries, won many games and won the 6N many times, the fact he is rubbish doesn’t matter in the popular eye, he’s a winner. I would take a world beating team of anonymous men any day over a team where a couple of superstars make the difference. That is kind of what England have, if you look at each position there are arguably better players from the other home nations in most if not all of them, but England are a team greater than the sum of their parts. Same applies to the ABs if you ask me, yes they have had the Lomus, Carters and McCaws over the years but I would say for the best team in the world there are only a few guys you can take and say, he is the best in the world in his position.

  28. Nicholas on

    Sorry I just re-read my post and realised it could be taken both ways. What I mean to say is that I understand why fellow Scottish fans are objecting to the BBC world XV lack of Scottish players. Rattled my cage too!

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