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Six Nations 2023: Scotland v Ireland Discussion Post

Give us your thoughts on the game while we put our minds to the post-match content.

Please put your post-game discussion points on this post – bearing in mind our Comment Policy.

Please keep it on topic for the discussion of the actual Ireland game itself and not immediately posting your team for next week.

How did Scotland play? Did Jack Dempsey go well at Number 8 and did we miss WP Nel? Where it all go wrong/right? Let us know your thoughts.

163 responses

  1. Scotland have done well to stay in touch with the number 1 team in the world – think we will regret not finishing off a couple of chances as Ireland have the wind in the second half and will pin us back. Lineout looking shaky so I think we will struggle .

    Either way, we are showing we can compete against the best – massive defence, competitive at the ruck and dangerous in attack.

    Ireland getting away with murder flying off their feet at rucks.

  2. Pretty damning that Irelands lineout is better with a flanker throwing than ours is with Fraser Brown – recurrent theme, need to put someone else on the bench.

    1. Agreed. And why did it take until 75 minutes for us to challenge the throw in? Once we did we won two against the head!!

    2. And scrum a disaster after substitutions. Ensuing penalties gave Ireland constant attacking positions.

  3. Not sure what was said at half time but Scotland didn’t turn up in the second half. Ireland didn’t have to do very much to keep us to nil in the second half and will see that as a bonus point dropped rather than a game won.

    1. He was prob slightly injured…it was his left leg so prob could give it a go…you limp off 6 days ago you can’t be 100%

      1. He limped off at the end of this game also, did not look great.

        Players really need rest during the fallow weeks…

  4. Ireland have better forwards than us and were able to fan out and crowd Finn Russell, gang tackle and contest the ball.
    We made some mistakes but some of that was cos of Irish pressure.
    In the 1st half I think we had a couple of opportunities but it looked like emotion got the better of us when a little pass might have put us in.

    I think Nel would be a better choice on the bench than Berghan.

  5. I don’t know what was said at half time but we suddenly reverted to the team of last year. Of course Gregors masterclass in front row subs on 50 minutes didn’t help matters.

    1. Damage was done in the selection. GT has stumbled upon current starters but the tombola is still alive and busy in the bench. Price over Horne??? Bergan over Nel??? Brown over Cherry??? Even Watson over Crosbie???

      1. That’s pretty much it, isn’t it? Our starters are doing well, but Toony’s choice of replacements could be better.

        We badly missed George Horne’s zip against France, so what does Toony do? Yup, keep him out of the 23 for the Test against Ireland.

        Nel is a far better option from the bench than Berghan (as long as we’re looking at a spell of no more than 25-30 minutes), but guess which one makes the 23?

        Brown isn’t now at the same level as Ashman or Cherry but…stop me if you’ve heard this one before…he’s the one selected by Toony.

        It pains me to say it, but Mish just isn’t the force he once was. He might yet have an Indian summer but right now his form isn’t good enough to make the 23. Picking him over Crosbie makes little sense.

  6. Great first half, but Ireland upped the intensity in the 2nd, and we seemed sluggish. Cannot understand why the front row was changed with 30 mins to go, stupid. Schoe, Fagerson, and Turner were firing and still had at least another 15 in them. Brown is terrible, Berghan about as much use as a marzipan d###o. Just does not make sense. We looked battered by the end and our lineout a mess.
    But all said and done, I think it was a good effort, our biggest challenge so far, we’re just not at the level yet in squad depth. None of our replacements brought much at all.

    1. We’re maybe a bit short of options at loosehead but have other decent options at hooker and Nel has been solid. Maybe we should practice the three prop front row too…seems effective.

  7. In the ascendency at the start of the second. Then front row replaced (strange decision at that point given momentum had swung – at a guess was around 55?) and that’s it we were toast – thought Nel would be a miss. And Furlong is just an unbelievable tighthead, with Schoe we can cope.

    Line out poor – in seriousness Ritchie should learn to throw so someone can do that job when Turner goes off.

    Very little from the replacements overall. Rudderless, underpowered and lacking carriers in the scrum with the changes, and ground down by a well drilled team. Helped along by some questionable refereeing of the breakdown that eased pressure on Ireland at all the wrong moments.

    Missed the chance to take that game by the scruff of the neck. Final score not flattering, but that really was a real missed chance.

    Hope Finn hasn’t done his hamstring and hope Kinghorn isn’t serious too. Tui in particular and Jones v good again. Along with White, Dempsey, Schoeman.

    I’d like to see that game replayed in France – but with a fit and fully firing Finn, R Gray, Darcy; Nel, Crosbie and Hornito on the bench. If the stars align so everyone is fit, there is a chance of an upset. Chalk this one off to rope-a-dope tactics for the WC and regroup…

  8. Looking at Ireland scrum with three props, can’t help but think it’s not a bad idea. Teach the back row to throw and go for size in front…. can’t be worse than Brown’s arrows.

  9. Early thoughts Very disappointing and missed opportunity. Honestly so slow to put pressure on van de flyers throws. So slow to react at. 7-8 as well.

    Ashman has to come in for brown Every time we get a decent position he misses his throw!

    Hope we can nick a result against SA otherwise it’s an early exit again

  10. Matched Ireland toe-to-toe in a thrilling first half and left points out there that really should have been scored.
    Second half was much more about Ireland’s strengths than our weaknesses and mistakes. They are well-drilled and relentless.

    A small point of irritation on the comms between ref and timekeeper. At around 68 or 69 minutes the clock was run for two or three minutes while subs were coming on when it should have been stopped. The same thing happened v All Blacks in November. Obviously didn’t affect the result but it reduces time in play and it’s poor management by the officials.

  11. Can we please finally say goodbye to Fraser Brown? Turner no better with his first three. What kind of amateurism was that? Train someone up as a trebuchet. And offer some input on not trying 3m forward passes in free play.

    Also, could someone persuade Murrayfield to give that maniacal announcer a free holiday to the moon – shrieking her head off before kick-off and throughout the entirety of half-time.

    1. I hate to single out players, but Brown has really hurt us this year. And it isn’t his first time. Ashman is the future and the torch needs to be passed.

      1. Yes the torch needs to be passed. I think kinghorn looks like the future at FB. Love Hogg and all he’s given but kinghorn offers more in attack.

      2. Yes Ian , Hogg does need to go. Kinghorn is not Hogg at his best , but right now at his best, he is better than Hogg who is not at his worst , but not at his best. I dont think Kinghorn is the answer long term either.

      3. Yes.. I also think he is done. Today I just felt that his form has gone along with his legs.. Like H Watson he is just not the player he was in his prime…time to transition to next up in line for Hogg Brown Watson Nel and a few others…I don’t even think they should make the RWC.

    2. Think the first one was when we found out Richie Gray was badly hurt , will need to watch back to see how that happened

    3. OMG I think the same thing about the announcer every. single. game. What is that all about? It’s excruciating and embarrassing. Has a civilian with no experience won a competition to do that for for 2 years?

      This game needed us to continue the hard graft, shape and determination that we’d shown in the first half. Instead, we changed our entire front row for no reason who at least had parity in set piece and the loose, for a bunch of sub-standard replacements which could have been held back for quite a bit of time. As soon as that happened, Ireland won a scrum penalty even though they had no hooker, and went up the field and scored. game over.

      Thought Dempsey,. White, Centres, Front row (starting) were all pretty good today. Ritchie was ok but is now getting a reputation for backchat although actually I thought his 10 metre march was a bit harsh. Is the captain not allowed to speak to the ref? “I’ll find you” – what rubbish was that. Still, Ritchie needs to wrap it.

      Hogg was unfortunatley as anonymous as he has been this entire tournament apart from his usual litany of mistakes. DVDM didn’t seem at the races, getting turned over, letting Hansen in for the catch, then the try, dropping a poor ball later. Maybe he’s just not built for these types of pressure games, looks good against poor W&E sides. Not sure we have anyone else though…..

      Did Watson come on at all? I was fast-forwarding with heavy resignation and sense of inevitability in every break in play for the last 12-15 mins.

      Very disappointing second half after a hugely impressive 1st half – what is the reason for this? This seems to be the same for even the good results we get these days. completely incapable of an 80 minute performance. we’re now struggling to replicate any of our recent decent years with 3 wins. The “we’re lucky to have Toony” narrative has abated a little now that reality has set in. Ultimately though, we’ve been beaten by the best team in the world – but we showed we can match them if we’d kept our shape/aggression/accuracy, but we just crumbled instead not helped by management decisions. Very frustrating.

  12. 1st half – Fantastic competitive, engrossing, where our level, intensity and handling skills were fantastic, we lacked that tiny bit of composure trying to score too quickly. Fine and slim margins though.
    2nd half – completely different Team, no idea how it could be so parallel opposite, too many changes/front row – too quickly?

    Ireland to be fair were relentless, overall was great we went toe to toe in that 1st half, need to find a way to keep that up.
    Also – We didn’t score a point from 18minutes onwards.
    Line outs – still a major flaw and issue and momentum killer.

    But.. overall, we are getting close, no cigar yet.

  13. Well. Before the tournament, the Scotsman said “three wins from five would be faintly heroic”. Next week, we have Italy at home to land that. And it is good, it is a step forward. It just feels kinda s***.

    The game went weird in the second half. It was scrappy and confusing and even though it was Ireland that suffered from it (prop at hooker for most of the second half, that sickener of an injury), they adapted way better. Same thing happened in the autumn: the worst we played against Argentina was when they were down to twelve.

    This whackamole that toonie is playing continues. He made the attack amazing and the defence got shredded. So he got the defence up to scratch and the attack faltered. So he got a balance, but we could still be overpowered up front. So he improved us there, but we didn’t have the mentality to close out big games. So he’s working on that, but we still can’t handle it if the game goes off script. On and on and on. Every solution creating a problem.

    We continue to improve. This team, I’d say, wins the 6N in 2021. It’s just that France and Ireland have taken a leap forward. Next week, we get to prove that we’re the best of the rest. Which will be faintly heroic. But only faintly.

    1. I thought the same earlier – this Scotland team would have won quite a few of the 6N over the past 10 years.
      We are just unfortunate our best team for a long time has come at the same time that France and Ireland are the best 2 teams in the world!
      We are the 3rd best team – but a clear step above the rest which is good.
      I have concerns how we will do in the coming years as our under 20’s don’t seem to be great, but we only need a couple of players a year to come through at the right level so not always representative but worrying for depth.
      Our bench was very poor today, definitely need some changes for next week although wouldn’t change to many of the starting 15 if fit.
      The World Cup early draw fiasco has really screwed us – although there is always a chance against SA and even Ireland if everything goes our way.

      1. Today was our day, home, best side, they lost key players and we managed one half. Toony has given us many choices in each position. Now we need to get over the last remaining amateur attitudes and we will get there.

        I just do not agree , we had enough in the tank, and fate gave us a few more handouts , but it never happened . Live with it, we are the best of the rest and solidly 5th in the world.

  14. Gulf in quality between 1st and 2nd choice front row is vast. Don’t know why Brown and Berghan on the bench, Ashman or Cherry and then Nel (or possibly Sebastian). We just looked berift of ideas in 2nd half, surprised not more chips over the top as per the French yesterday. A reality check, we should come 3rd and right now that’s about right, Ireland and France are just better than us right now. More worried about 2 years time or so as not sure where the future stars are.

    1. We bever lost the game because of the front row. The lineout was gone when Richie Gray left and we never worked out how to outwith their flanker throwing in. Poor leadership. Ireland were seriously wounded and we never took advantage.

      1. Yes …and its a huge problem if we rely on a 6’10 33 yr old to hold the lineout together.
        When he goes our lineout instantly disintegrates. It did before he returned to the side …and as soon as he leaves the field.

  15. I was disappointed that Hogg did not have a crack at Goal just before half time.

    Those of us who get to Games (Glasgow and Scotland) know he spends a lot of time practicing long kicks at goal, we had the wind behind us. Going in ahead would have made a difference to the team psychology and what a way to mark 100 caps.

    If I was out there with him, I would have been disappointed. We made a mess of the lineout and the second half was dire. That did not come as a surprise to me, it was fundamentally the wrong decision.

    That was the turning point IMO.

    However , I accept he was not confident, the worst that could have happened was a restart. The lineout was not going well at that stage.

    1. It was a long way out and a bit right of centre, in fact a line out length away from the touch line. If he did not feel it was right, it wasn’t right.

      Like you say, he practices it all the time, why turn away on you big day.

      1. I was more disappointed we didn’t take our time to recycle and score a try once we broke the line? We went for broke a bit too quickly….we had them on back foot so needed a little bit more composure and high odds we’d have scored just before halftime changes the whole game

      2. I think one of our major issues is that our coaches and senior players – who should be providing this composure – have historically been in losing teams and have learned not to have confidence in the basics.

        There is always sense of do something quick before the opportunity is lost … we are gamblers not investors. Ritchie in particular needs to learn to keep this under control.

        Its a funny thing to try to harness but lifelong ‘winners’ often don’t do anything special but do the basic things very well, and have faith that this is sufficient to succeed, which it usually is.

        What got you to the line will probably get you over the line if you keep at it, or at least a penalty will be awarded, and then pull out the moves with advantage in the back pocket. I think the kick to the corner decision was fine – higher percentage than the long range PK, but the execution was panicky and in the end we got nothing.

        If we want to win anything substantial (involving multiple wins in a short time) this psychological issue needs to be sorted out…we could do well to recruit some better mentors.

        TL:DR – we are trying too hard

      3. Wise words:

        Its a funny thing to try to harness but lifelong ‘winners’ often don’t do anything special but do the basic things very well, and have faith that this is sufficient to succeed, which it usually is.

      4. Alanlyst excellent summing up. I agree but I do think Scotland have grasps some of the traits of winners but yet to get this one fully which is key. Ireland had no panic even when it went wrong and believed it would be enough…the last ten mins of first half are hard to watch again. ..such a huge chance to build a lead.

  16. PONDERINGS
    Didn’t score enough points In 1st half to keep Ireland honest. Matched them but couldn’t score enough.

    No real complaints as Ireland are #1 for a reason

    R.Gray a huge loss, the line-out imploded for a while. (Took ages to work out Dorris’s throwing as a hooker)

    I’m a great fan of Hogg but nothing of note In 4 games, has his time gone?

    Missed Darcy Graham and Cam Redpath should’ve been on bench.

    Crosbie should’ve started.

    Why change the front row?

    Ashman needs to be in the 23.

    Ultimately 3 wins is a good outcome (Italy game may well be an exciting game)

    1. Our record against Italy is to get into an arm wrestle. Worried about our injuries for next week

    2. It was Van der something with his red cap shining like a beacon. They must have worked out he was throwing. Jamie Richie is a very young captain, maybe more caps under his belt and we will do more.

      Twice we got marched back 10 ? We clearly lost the referee, not that I think he had a bad game (seriously) he is a fair ref.

      Your question mark : ANS probably.

  17. Glad we are all on the same page, pity the management isn’t. Turner is a great rumbustious hooker but can’t hit a coo on the erse with a banjo, Brown takes it to another ( way lower)level. When RG isn’t available we are toast. The 3 Bs Brown Bhatti and Berghan should not be allowed near the team again. The first choice front row were doing nothing wrong, why change at 54 minutes???
    Dempsey more than justified his place at 8 but to move Ritchie and Fagerson out of position to accommodate him was a mistake. VDM was missing defensively, he has work to do there. Russell below par today but we don’t have options there.

  18. In conclusion:
    Crosby not The Mish on the bench (sorry to say, but he’s not on form)
    Front row stay on much longer – Schoeman and Fagerson were excellent. Sutherland and Ashman on bench (Brown taken to the long grass)
    Kick the penalty before half time
    Don’t argue with ref Jamie, or phrase it as a question…
    Dempsey keeps 8 jersey
    Half time oranges need to be the French ones, Finn lost a lot of fizz in second half, wasn’t probing and keeping them guessing the way he did in 1st.
    Jones outstanding as we all (except Toony) knew.
    Redpath on bench
    Horne on bench (Price is so predictable, and slow)
    Steyn played well particularly in defence, but lacks DG sparkle.

    Ice baths all-round , that was a bruising afternoon.

    1. I’d have been much happier if we were bringing on Sutherland, Ashman and Nel (all fit I believe?) at 54 minutes than Bhatti, Brown and Berghan. It felt like the Irish were there for the taking at that point, but the game turned on a sixpence as soon as they came on to lose their first scrum penalty.

      The way the Irish props bullied our incoming three showed up that the idea that you have to take your front row off early. I’d have waited until 10, maybe 15 to go before withdrawing Schoe and Turner, and would’ve seen if Zander could last the 80 to avoid giving another cap to Berghan.

      There weren’t really even that many scrums in the first 54 minutes. All round, a really strange decision this one.

      1. Both Brown and Berghan especially were terrible…we have better…and confused why they were selected.

      2. We have in here criticized Toony for not playing his subs. Now he has, and he gets it for too early. He really cannot read that game like we can.

  19. The overhrown lineout on the Scottish line early in the game, which went to Irish hands, was sloppy and showed no awareness of how the opposition were spread out.
    But lacking concentration is only part of Scotland’s problems: more seriously, the workrate of the forwards need’s to improve, especially at the breakdown.

  20. When it comes to rugby we don’t like Ireland and I think there was quite a lot of emotion in the way we played.
    Stuff like failing to finish off chances with a simple 1 pass, rushing lineouts, coming in at the side on a benign kick off Ireland had received in their 22 and Hoggy being hooked in the 65th minute just said the team were overhyped.

    And Ireland are wind-up merchants who live off side and gob off all the time too.

    We scored our first try off 16 or 17 phases of possession. Just keeping the ball and waiting for the mismatch.

    Yes, Ireland are a better team than us (a bit) but it feels like we lost patience, got angry, started to go too early putting ourselves under pressure then eventually got tired.

    1. ‘We scored our first try off 16 or 17 phases of possession. Just keeping the ball and waiting for the mismatch’. This is exactly what Ireland do all the time

    2. Although we missed chances in the first half the game was so physical and intense I was very pleased how well we coped. Second half though, I think we rushed things, exactly as you say, and also didn’t introduce enough variety in our game. Our strategic kicking game was largely absent and I think we struggled to play the game where we could have capitalised on mistakes and half breaks. I don’t know if this was just sticking to a strategy that Ireland had worked out or what but we needed to change things up.

      We didn’t score a point after the 13th minute – that is a pretty damning statistic.

    3. Yes , I thought there wasn’t enough patience in the second half to get in behind Ireland. That and the missed opportunity at the lineout seemed to take the momentum out of the pressure Scotland we’re building. One can only hope that they have learned from this test the lesson that you have to earn your moments of champagne rugby against teams like Ireland and France and ,no doubt, the South Africans.

  21. just thought it was a reality check – fought really hard but in end Ireland were just too good. We are probably improving but still way behind France and Ireland.

    Agree with front row subs – a big gulf in quality from our first choice

    Anyway never really thought we looked like winning at any stage

    1. Why is Ashman not being selected? What has Fraser Brown got on Toonie to keep getting selected?

  22. Well played lads. In the fight for the first half. Quality and “experience of winning” counted for a lot in the second half. In reality we never really expected to win this game (did we?) , did think there was a drop off when the front row subs came on.

    Sadly, as mentioned earlier on here, think it is time for Kinghorn to be starting for Hogg next week.

    Anyway, you have done us proud lads!

  23. I’m very proud of the Scotland team and they’re a joy to watch compared to what we used to see but does anyone else feel we might have been too emotional today?

    Overthrown lineouts, schoolboy penalties like in at the side, going too early, opting to go for the line instead of the pass or another phase and finally Hoggy getting hooked suggested to me we might have lost our composure.

    Ireland are, of course, an incredibly irritating and smug team of perma-cheats too. They would drive a Saint to murder.

    In the games we’ve won in the last couple seasons v sides who were expected to win comfortably we were very good at staying in touch and waiting for them to lose composure and momentum to shift.

    We did it to France 2 seasons ago and we did it to England in the 1st game. Clinging on and waiting for doubts to creep in is also how Wales used to win at least half their games!

    Did we lose our composure today? It seemed that way, and it seemed Ireland exploited it.

    1. Yes we did. Old ways returned and we were not one team. Glory hunters returned to the fold looking for a page in history on that big day. Just my opinion, as the late queen said ‘ recollections will vary’.

    2. We completely failed to manage the game for some reason. We were rash time and time again:

      The wide to wide attack as the clock is running red and we get pushed into touch and lose not only possession but our field position as HT is called.

      The dumb penalty from the 2nd half restart. Ireland gain 40m.

      The marchbacks for dissent. Ireland gain a cumulative 30m.

      The attempted charge down which probably wasn’t on but resulted in a touched clearance from the 22 to gift Ireland the throw in 30 metres downfield.

      The forward pass from Finn (which could quite easily not have been given) followed by Townsend’s unforgivable front row subs before the resultant scrum hands Ireland another penalty and 40m.

      Field position is everything against Ireland. They rely almost completely on free entries into the opposition half. But we kept handing them those free entries in the 2nd half.

      I truly believe that cooler heads and better decisions would have given us a very close finish.

    3. Honest question. What cheating did ireland do that you noticed from afar that the referee on the pitch didn’t notice, nor either touch judge, nor the TMO who has instant replays at multiple angles?

      1. You live offside for a start.

        Look, you won, you have a very effective, world class team and fair’s fair, there was a time just about in living memory when a Scotland team who lived offside and gamed the ref to the maximum extent possible used to regularly do something similar to Ireland.
        And you didn’t hear many complaints from us then.

        You can leave us now to feel annoyed, vowing to get revenge on you at the world cup in the knowledge that we probably won’t.

        Happy?

    4. Ireland are “a smug team of perma-cheats”…. wasn’t us who changed the ball for a quick lineout.

      Was us who were punished and try disallowed..

      Very disrespectful comment here – are you 6, or a Rangers supporter, or both

      1. Say, what!?
        I would really like us to beat an Irish team who proudly cross the divide therefore I am Rangers fan?

        Seriously, no. Like many Scots I have ancestors from Ireland.

        If you want to call it something then call it sibling rivalry dude.

        We’ll get you one day, hopefully in my lifetime.

    5. Scotland were good enough to win that, but there is a serious lack of depth on the bench. The subs in the second half had an anti-impact effect. Also, Scotland should have kicked for touch more in the second half. Ireland didn’t have a specialist thrower at that stage.

      1. I disagree with this post and numerous others.

        The bench did not lose us that game. There are numerous opinions about what went wrong.

        Despite all of those opportunities, we gave it a go , we know we could have won.

        That is not something to moan about . We are about a year too early , harder to win in Dublin, yes it is. But :

        they will not be world number ones next year , will they !

        Because their form is slipping already if we get that close.

  24. I am a fan of DVM and he was not the reason we lost but when he got tackled (by Keenan) I think , there were three men outside him. I think you need to take that one on the chin Duhan.

    1. It’s an unreal tackle tbf. You can’t really blame Duhi for thinking he’s going to make it.

  25. DVM was also at fault for at least a couple of the tries – had a poor game today. Having said that still think he offers plenty and should be persevered with

    1. Outside of Graham, DVDM and Steyn we have no test level wingers of note. I don’t see any coming through capable of playing at their level. We’ll no doubt have to search for SQ players far and wide.

      1. I think Kyle Rowe will be seriously quality wing for us when he gets back to fitness.

        He was only behind Van Der Merwe in the premiership last season for attacking stats and puts his body on the line, can cover 15 also.

        Apart from that, shame we could not convince Arundell to play for us, now he languishes on the English Bench.

      2. Yeah I was thinking about Rowe when I wrote the post. Thats a significant injury he picked up though and Im not sure hell come back the same player….but my point really was that its a pretty bare cupboard at wing and we needed 2 SA project players…
        We also really need to wrap Murphy Walker in cotton wool…TH is just rediculously poor after Fagerson and a 37yr old.

  26. Thoughts.

    Scoreline does not reflect the game (yet it does).

    Small margins, a bit stronger bench depth from ireland and the awareness and ability to get the ball out wide through miss passes was the only big difference in result.

    We have hookers who are good around the park, and are excellent at line-out throws… when we have Richie Gray and Grant Gilchrist. Losing both of then effectively within a week destroyed our line-out and driving maul. Gilchrist criminally underrated in those aspects… A Cummings/J Gray combo is not tall enough against the best.

    Play Schoeman and Z.Fagerson for 60-65 minutes… and have Nel on the bench.

    A 6-2 split is better for us against the top 4 teams i believe. Harris got a whole 3 minutes? (and did fck all with it).

    At least we showed we were game, a lot of Irish people injured that game through our physicality, we are not a fun team to play against.

    Duhan needs to learn to jump for the ball, and not get drawn in, fix that and i don’t think we have any worries defensively (his attacking game massively outweighs any defensive issues however).

    Hogg appears to have lost his legs, he offers a decent all-round game still but we need to at least look at other options now should he not improve.

    Team for next week (i’m not worried about the Italians, yet acknowledge they have improved, some players need a rest)

    Kinghorn – Steyn – Jones – Tuipolotu – Van Der Merwe – Healy – White – Dempsey – Crosbie – Ritchie (c) – R Gray – Skinner – Fagerson – Ashman – Schoeman

    Hogg – Russell – Horne – Fagerson – J Gray – Nel – Turner – Sutherland

    3rd place with combative performances against France and Ireland is what i considered success this six nations, we have achieved that. We are clearly the 5th best team at this moment (pretty good imo).

    Well done Ireland, deservedly No.1 team in the world.

    1. We are indeed the 5th Best team, we deserve to be , and we can get better. Next week I want to see a team performance.

      Why are you dropping Russell. Bring on Healy when the game is over. Hogg ? Game for Ollie Smith to get bench time. You cannot put a guy like Hogg on the bench, He is starting or out. I think he could start against Italy. Get his try count up.

      1. Healy needs experience at test level in the event that Russell gets crocked just before or early on at the RWC. I would also start him and bring Russell off the bench. FWIW I would start Kinghorn at 15 and give Hogg a day off but it won’t happen.

    2. Disagree about Harris doing nothing with his 3 minutes – he managed a knock-on which could have cost a try. McDowall on the bench with Horne – other spot likely to be Healy unless he starts if Finn and Hogg both injured.

      1. M Fagerson looks a bit burned out…as does Ritchie.
        Yes …would like to see McDowell get a chance also.
        Surely Finn and Hogg rested. Neither had good games anyway.
        Kinghorn FB Healy FH ..

        Our entire bench needs an overhaul in addition to a few spots in the 15.
        The bench added nothing…and we were , in fact, noticeably worse when they came on.

    3. Agree with much of that…
      Scoreline was fair…no complaints as far as what that reflected.
      We are a 40 min team….Ireland are relentless for at least 3/4 of the match. Playing for 40 mins with intensity is well short of what is required to beat any of the top 4 sides.

      We have the basis of a very good side…but then I also think this could be as good as it gets.
      We have players like Hogg and Watson who look like they are on the slippery slope out of test footy. I wouldn’t be taking them to the RWC on their current form.
      Watson should never have been selected ahead of Crosbie who was playing in a winning side same with Horne. Anyway about 30% of the team needs to be phased out even pre RWC to even have a sniff of a chance imo.

      1. I think we can be a 80 minute team but against better teams we often have a 10 to 15 minute spell where we ship multiple tries in succession.

        this week it was 55 to 65 minutes (2 tries conceded)…

        Something like Lowe’s try was going to happen sooner or later but Conan’s try was a bit soft to concede.

        vs France it was 5 to 20 minutes (3 tries conceded)

        vs England 35 to 50 minutes (2 tries conceded)

        We cannot keep recovering from double digit deficits…

  27. Would really like to see Henderson, Ashman, Healy, Horne, Crosbie, Redpath and a proper TH from somewhere in the universe with a Scottish granny……all included in the next 23.

  28. Suspect that we’ll be without Gray Snr, Finn & Hoggy next week. If that’s the case, really hope Kinghorn is ok as.he looked to be struggling at one stage. Wondering if Finn was really fully fit – yes he was well targeted but just didn’t seem his “usual” self.
    Matt Fagerson was below par, maybe the switch to 6? I would have either him or Dempsey on bench next week, Ritchie at 6, Crosbie back at 7 please. Skinnier most likely bench lock. If both Finn and Hogg out, does Toony start Kinghorn at 10 or 15? He’ll no doubt decide it will be at 10 and so would need to parachute Maitland at 15? Alternative is to start Healy, just can’t see it.
    DVdM needs practice on passing and defending this week – can’t believe he didn’t pass when he thought he could bulldozer Keenan, clear overlap which went begging.
    Please no Brown or Berghan next week – Brown just doesn’t add much these days and can’t remember Berghan ever having a good game. Got to win next week, hope the mindset hasn’t been too damaged after that second half.

  29. Random points in no particular order.

    Good to see Siobhan Cattigan finally get official recognition by the SRU, probably too little too late but nice none the less.

    We were well beaten by a better team. Ireland have essentially replaced New Zealand, they are almost always cheating but they get away with it and who’s the fool?

    First half was good, second half we reverted to the Scotland team we all know too well and tried to force things too much which lead to mistakes and points for Ireland.

    Our replacement front row is a real step down, we all knew this anyway. Not sure why we changed them so early, was it arrogance thinking that with Healy at hooker that two fresh props would demolish the Irish scrum?

    The line out is a mess, without Richie Gray or Grant Gilchrist it just doesn’t work, throw Fraser brown into the mix and it totally implodes.

    Hoggy getting a lot of pelters for not taking the kick before half time. I don’t agree, we were playing well and applying pressure during the preceding minutes. It was a long way out and how many times does Hogg actually make those kicks? Damned if you do damned if you don’t, if we had got points either way it would have been lauded as a great decision.

    I think Ireland sussed out our attack, they snuffed it out very quickly, right on the limit of offside but they didn’t give us much of any cheap yards.

    All in all they are the no1 team in the world and we are no5 and that’s pretty much what happened. I hate the Ireland team with a passion but fair play to them they were their usual clinical selves, we probably gave them as big a scare as they have had though.

    1. I felt Ireland were offside a lot …and in at the side a fair bit ..yet rarely got pinged for it.

      Our lineout is not even international standard …let alone competing against a top 4 side. it’s truly awful …and I can’t believe it’s not a focus…and if it is we need a different coach before we get humiliated at the RWC

  30. I think reluctantly (cos I like Ali Price in many ways) but the biggest mistake was not having George Horne on bench last two games….

    …when Ireland were floundering and they were for first 10 mins of 2nd half George would have been the difference in momentum. Instead of losing our composure he’d have helped it by just being him.

    The mistakes were compounded by lack of momentum and speed in breakdown. Forward passes same reason.

    When both teams were all over the place at start of 2nd half we had the edge but didn’t seem to be fully organised at same time.

    Horne should start Italy game and watch the difference..

    1. Why should Horne Start the next game? Are you not happy with Ben White who really hasn’t done anything wrong IMO ?

      Do you really just mean we should drop Ally Price ? or are you dropping White ? or Starting Horne and going for a random on the bench ?

      Are you Toony ?

      1. Horne has been in excellent form all season to be fair. Without Russell next week, i’d say he is also our next best kicker (90% this season) to kinghorns 60/70 (i’m guessing).

      2. Neil : Are you referendum. Let him answer, I am wondering what White has done wrong to get dropped ? and who gets the bench.

      3. White hasn’t done anything wrong he deserves the start from what he has done in the tournament.

        Did Price deserve to usurp Horne? Looking back certainly against England and closed and finished Wales well too…Horne was that extra ingredient.

        So because Horne provides something unique and will suit well against Italians he is worth a start and White is on bench.

        I think Horne and White are both excellent players and have their skill sets that will help against different opp.

        What do you think Mr Bass?

      4. What do I think ? Well thanks for setting out what you really mean. Demoting White to the bench makes no sense , however I think Neil has a very useful comment on Horne being a reliable kicker . If we have a new stand off , then White is the lynchpin in continuity from the backrow to the standoff, why bring in another variable.

        I think White is rightly our starter, I think Horne is a great player, off the bench his speed, agility and tenacity challenge a team who are dropping on energy , I think Ally Price has never fulfilled his early potential (despite being one of our most capped lions of the professional era) and still wonder why we persist.

        I would agree there was no logic to Toony putting Price on the bench when Horne had done nothing wrong but that is water under the bridge, Toony does what he fancies.

  31. Im not sure whoever we have played if the result would’ve much different.
    Ireland are very driven, very street-wise, and #1 in the world.
    Scotland have improved and have been thrilling in the years 6N. However…………. pretty much in the main its get the ball to Finn Russell ASAP and he makes things happen. V lesser teams (England & Wales) this worked to a tee but yesterday very little front foot ball, resulting in less time/space for Russell. Scotland in the 1st half matched Ireland punch for punch but it all went wrong thereafter. Maybe because Ireland are used to playing at this level we aren’t, maybe it simply demonstrated there were 5 or 6 players in the Scotland squad who are not quite good enough and at this level that really matters.
    Huge game on Saturday- 3 wins is a decent return. 2 wins an absolute disaster

  32. Just a bad day at the office I feel. Ireland were a little more accurate. We’re still playing some incredible rugby had we been more accurate in certain areas we could have won. Pitty we didn’t have a Bennett or a Redpath or P. Horne at23. We’re capable of beating the no1 team in the world if on form on the day.

    1. We have beaten Ireland once in 13 matches!
      France 5 wins in 21 matches.
      SA once in the last 15 matches.
      NZ never.

      There is little evidence we are capable of beating the No1 team in the world ‘on the day’ ….until we do.
      Weary of many saying that…GT, Hogg etc included.

  33. Looking back, 2 key moments for me:

    31 mins: INSANE tackle by Hugo Keenan on Duhan 5 m out. Genuinely don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone take him down so cleanly. If he doesn’t that’s 14-8 and Scotland likely go in at half time with a lead to protect. They’re in the lead when the second half goes bats**t, and it’s easier for them to just take a breath and refocus. Gamechanger of a tackle, gets better every time you see it. But then Finn exacerbates it by talking back to Luke Pearce, he marches us back 15 metres for some reason, and the pressure valve is well and truly released.

    53 mins: with the score still 8-7 and Ireland trying to figure out how to play without a hooker, it feels like Scotland are in the ascendancy. Then the subs come on. I don’t want to slag off Bhatti or Berghan, or even Townsend for making the change – Schoeman and Fagerson are tiring, both were smashed backwards on their last carry before they went off. But from that moment, Healy wins a scrum pen, VDF secures the lineout and Lowe scores. Just a sickener, that a better team (Ireland, say), would come back from, but we aren’t there yet in terms of our development, and from there, we were a hot mess.

    We are figuring out how to win games, but we couldn’t figure out how to win the maddest game imaginable against the best team in the world. And we don’t have the depth – Ireland lost half their starting pack to injury, but losing Richie Gray hurt us more (God, he’d have eaten VDF’s throwing for breakfast).

    1. Couldn’t agree more the championship mins before and after half-time….we actually messed up getting in behind in dead time in first half too…

      …I reckon we take the chance after halftime had we taken either of the two before due to confidence, pressure on opp and belief…we really did make a mess of some great chances throughout that were more our fault than Ireland good defence…

      Could duhan have thrown ball after the tackle or did tackle make that impossible?

  34. Really disappointing day at the office for Scotland. A few things stand out above all else.

    (1) The line-out: surely we can’t be 100% reliant on a 33 year old lock. Fraser Brown… just no.
    (2) The replacements: apart from Kinghorn who barely got a touch, every one weakened us significantly and the 55 min sub of the front row just seemed to rob us of any momentum.
    (3) Duhan: brilliant player: one of our very best – but he had a poor game defensively. Beaten in the air by Hansen (he didn’t even jump to contest) and some poor tacking contributed to 3 Ireland tries. In attack, he also ran away from supporting players a bit too often. He’ll be back though.
    (4) Ireland’s width defence was first class. Think we were guilty of not earning the right to go wide so early, meant every time Duhan, Steyn or Hogg got ball in hand, there was plenty of cover to snuff out our attack or get someone in touch. Not a criticism of our centres – who continued to play well – but we need to learn to play a bit tighter.
    (5) Finn maybe looked a bit leggy after playing for Racing.
    (6) Ben White continued to look a cut above at 9. He’s no Dupont, but he’s made the Scotland shirt his own.
    (7) Was disappointed for Hogg on his big day. Despite becoming a few people’s favourite scapegoat, he was fine and we’d have really struggled to get territory without his cannon of a boot. But we need him to get back to the fitness and form of the AIs ahead of the World Cup. Kinghorn and Smith are good club players, but they’re a massive step down from a fit and firing Hogg.

  35. As a neutral watching the six-nations and reading through the various forums, a few things are clear. The Scotland hype we keep seeing every year is unfounded until you deliver at a consistent high level. You beat the weakest England & Wales sides we have seen in years.
    You guys keep bigging yourself up after a couple of wins and shoot yourselves in the foot when you meet a serious side.
    If the likes of Hogg focused more on delivering a performance than on his slick bleached hair and fake tan, he might not be trotting off the field with his tail between his legs.
    Why the hatred for Ireland? From an outsiders perspective it looks more like sour grapes as you are looking at a a country and set of provinces who are leaving you in the dust. All of their provinces (Connaught included) have won silverware Heiniken Cup, Pro 12, 14 or Champions Cup and numerous Six Nations Championships + Grand Slam. Scotland & their clubs have done nothing since 1999.
    The sour grapes are even more evident when you you didn’t even vote for your own neighbours bid to host the RWC. Mind boggling when you consider that you all play in the same club tournament and that England did support their bid…anyways, might be tome to take a good hard look at yourselves because judging by your bench and the next generation…U20’s, Ireland will be whopping you for a while to come.

    1. This is adorable. As if anybody other than an Irish fan still gives a flying buttress about the world cup host voting. What a hilariously pointless lie.

      Their team showed incredible calm in difficult circumstances yesterday. Their media, pundits, and a minority of fans are absolutely losing their minds.

    2. Neutral….ha!
      Pot ..kettle …….

      Lets see if your team actually make it past the RWC QFs…enjoy No1 tag till then.

  36. I spoke to quite a few Irish supporters at the match yesterday and posed the question “Ok,would you rather watch the RWC in your home country or in France?)
    Answer from all of them? No contest,why would I want to watch matches I can see on my doorstep in Dublin etc anytime rather than go to Paris,Nice,Marseille or wherever in the Autumn!”

  37. The 6 nations has gone to form, we lost to the Number 1 and 2 teams in the world. We are the third best in the comp. The pressure they applied forced more mistakes than the pressure we applied. We were poor all second half. We tried to play hi tempo but Ireland were fitter and more composed at the highest intensity. We need to get ourselves together and do a job on Italy. We always believe we can get to the edge of Irelands defense but time and again we fail I think there is a reason Townsend has never beaten them maybe we need a more horses for courses approach, I felt a bit sorry for Bergan, he’s not really at this level but Ireland milked two penalties by walking round and ref fell for it. unfortunately Ireland and SA are the two teams tailor made to defeat Scotland. We defo missed Gilchrist and Gray’s leadership second half.

    1. There is far too much negative stuff after our defeats..it usually involves calling the opposition cheats or blaming the referee. 2 blatant yellow cards by Hogg..neither punished..so we could go on all day with this negative stuff..it wont imrove our long term goals.

      1. It’s poor and tasteless to suggest Ireland cheated their way to a win. They are a quality side who won fair and square. We only showed up for one half and need to take it on the chin.

        Hogg deserves to be replaced by Kinghorn not only for his inferior form but because he’s becoming a liability when it comes to discipline. He should be one of the leaders but will cost us dearly sooner rather than later. Maybe Pearce let him off because it was his 100th cap.

  38. Ireland are “a smug team of perma-cheats”…. wasn’t us who changed the ball for a quick lineout.

    Was us who were punished and try disallowed..

    Very disrespectful comment here – are you 6, or a Rangers supporter, or both

  39. Disappointed we couldn’t lift our game in the 2nd half. Stood toe-to-toe with #1 in the world for 55 minutes (actually 75 minutes – their two tries in 5 minutes finished us off).
    That first half was exhausting and brutal. Not surprised things went awry in the second. And that was both teams – Ireland just had more composure and confidence to see them over the line.
    People calling for Bennett/Redpath or any other centre were obviously not watching the same game I was. Tuipolotou and Jones were outstanding in attack and defence – always made yards and I don’t think missed a tackle.
    Unfortunately the difference was DVDM’s defensive naivity. Whether he didn’t trust Huw Jones inside him or was just badly positioned, he gave Hansen and then Conan their tries, and failed to compete with Hansen for the high ball that eventually Lowe scored. He’ll hopefully learn from that and not get sucked in unnecessarily again.
    Obviously need to sort out the lineout. Why Brown can’t hit a barn door is beyond me. Even with Richie Gray gone surely Ritchie could take over the lineout leaders role – he is captain after all. They should be able to cope with ANY changes to personnel. It’s not Toonie’s fault – he doesn’t coach the lineout. I’m not sure anyone does tbh, but surely it’s John Dalziel’s responsibility?
    All those calling for wholesale changes should be ashamed. These guys put their all into that game and deserve the chance to complete a remarkably good 6N.
    Given previous seasons it wouldn’t have been inconceivable that we would be playing for the wooden spoon next week. Injuries aside I would avoid changing the starting XV, but maybe there are some of the bench who have had a chance but not taken it. Think Nel, Cherry, Crosbie, Horne might deserve their chance.

    1. Coming 3rd or 4th in the table is not a bad outcome, considering no1 and 2 in 6 nations…i think we are about where we should be.

      Our RWC group was always going to need an upset for to get beyond the group.

      If we had beaten Ireland yesterday, we would have almost no chance of being allowed to repeat it during the RWC…Ireland will now move forward with confidence that they have us twigged for RWC rather than putting every 1st choice playeron the line to win that game. It has created a higher potential for a possible victory for Scotland. SA will also be relieved by yesterday’s result which also will help.

  40. I’ll be honest and say that the result went exactly as I expected. Very competitive and then the #1 side in the world would pull away.
    We had some good moments and some bad moments but we’re not quite there yet. Clearly DVM had a poor game. That happens sometimes. Hogg looks a little lost; no form and his searing pace is gone. Outside of the boot he’s not bringing what he once did (his achievements still stand). Finn was clearly carrying a niggle from the word go. Our bench did not deliver much. While Brown had some fine moments in the Autumn, his time for the big game has gone. Mish looks like he too may be on the downhill slope but is still in contention.
    But this loss has not depressed me as it has some. We are getting better. And this is without Darcy or Darge. We can get even better.
    I do wonder with Toonie. I think he has been a fine coach for us. But I also wonder if he has taken the team as far as he can. I suspect that the SRU are waiting to see who the NZRFU go for before deciding what to do. Either way, I think a change there is needed but it’s still a risk as both Wales and England have discovered.
    Changes for Sat. I’d like to see Horne. Price is just a little too slow these days. Ashman over Brown all day long. Nel to start or on the bench with Zander. Risk Darge at 7? Injuries are doing to be what drives selection though I suspect

  41. Couple of things I saw were Ireland always seemed to have a 2 on 1 in attack and defence, often we seemed to be relying on one player to get past 2 defenders, which didn’t seem likely. I would expect New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, Wales, France and others came off the park thinking,’we could have won that if only…’ However Ireland played smart enough to get past all of these teams. If you look at results for Ireland over the last year, the closest to beating them was Australia who narrowly lost. Our loss is no worse than that of France (that’s Sean Edwards thou shall not pass our try line France). So actually we didn’t really do any worse than anyone else has done in the last year. We were in the game, we were creating chances and it looked pretty even till about 55mins till we swapped out our front row and scrum half at which point we seemed to revert back to being a bit clueless, which is surprising given we didn’t do that against France even though they should have been out of sight. Maybe it’s how Ireland play. Lets face it they have probably the most consistently performing team in Europe in Leinster and their other provinces are pretty good as well.

    Ireland have taken years to build a team and the pipeline to churn out players who are pretty much world class as soon as they step onto a rugby pitch in the URC or an international. Scotland have 2 pro teams who can compete and are there or there abouts and a setup that might just start to bring players through but we’re a long way away from having produced 30-40 players who are at sufficiently high level to fit into a pro or international team.

    Going by world rankings finishing 3rd behind Ireland and France who are 1 and 2 is not a bad return.

    We had a chance, we gave it a go but we were out played by a team who were smarter on the day and figured out how to keep us at bay. Noticeable that Gibson Park came on and had Ireland firing on all cylinders, upped the tempo and put Ireland on the front foot. Ali Price didn’t do that, George Horne might have, and our front row changes didn’t have any impact. The Scotland coaches need to go and look at that and ask why was that. The answer might be pretty bleeding obvious but the coaches need to see it, understand it and do something.

    We’re not a bad team, we’re a good team that came up against a better team.

    1. Good post, NeilH. Ireland’s advances at Test and province Club levels in the last ten years or so have been remarkable. Full credit must go the schools, junior clubs, the four URC clubs and the IRFU itself.
      I’d be interested to know how many players are registered there compared with our numbers.

      1. I think as much as numbers its what you do with those players. England has a massive pool of players at many levels but not much of an international team for the last while. Personally I think bringing the South African teams to the URC can only be a good thing. The fact you had no Irish team in the final, says it all really. Competition that helps build players and teams can’t be a bad thing. The SRU need to actually have a plan to make rugby successful in Scotland and not just throw out half hearted schemes. We seem to be bringing through a few good players, but that needs to turn into a steady stream and the players who are developing need to be playing at a decent semi pro level at least to develop into the internationals of the future.

  42. Much though I hate to say it reading a lot of the comments a certain winger of ours was heavily involved in defensive failures for all three Irish tries.Said winger also failed to pass with a man outside for certain tries on one( if not two ?) occasions.
    So,look on the bright side.If he can work on his defence-think he “bit in” twice at Twickenham as well for opposition tries-and is more aware of players free outside just think how that scoreline could have been very different.Hope for Paris yet!

    1. The downside of not playing Harris. Our wings are being exposed a lot more. Everything’s a trade-off.

  43. Do the SRU have a new policy for centurions. Family on the pitch with them before the game ! Maybe I am just out of touch.

  44. Well that’s Russell done his knee ligaments and Hogg his ankle….released.

    Kinghorn at 15…Healy at 10 for Ita?… Mind you its GT…so could be Maitland or Smith at FB and Slinghorn at 10

    1. A 6 day turnaround will take its toll, when we need to be at our strongest , in the second half. It is never great to lose that pair, but we could do with fresh legs.

  45. yes Russell didnt seem 100 per cent, so no surprise. Hogg maybe likewise. Just puts the win slightly in doubt, although likely Italy have a few injuries too

  46. Not surprising unfortunately, fairly convinced Finn wasn’t 100% from the start and strapping and crossed fingers only lasts so long.
    We’ve got to blood Healy at some point soon so just hope Toony’s brave enough. I hadn’t even thought of Jones moving to 15 until read that possibility elsewhere. It’s a “no” from the judges but Toony has right of veto. Assuming Richie Gray out too, would like to see:
    Kinghorn Steyn Jones Tuipulotu VdM
    Healy White
    Schoe Turner Fagerson
    Gray Jnr. Cummings
    Ritchie Fagerson Crosbie

    Bhatti. Cherry. Nel Skinner. Dempsey. Horne. McDowall Smith

    Tough on Dempsey but think Matt Fagerson looks out of sorts at 6 and Dempsey has done a great job off the bench and that’s not meant to be patronizing in any way.
    But then I’m not the coach and would be a completely crap one too, so over to you Gregor (but please don’t go for your preference of Kinghorn at 10!)

    1. Do not move Huw Jones to 15. The midfield is currently the envy of the championship and they need one final game to cement it. That is our midfield now.

      We don’t need a 15 of Hogg’s quality against Italy.

      We Just want a full back who does the basics for this match. Kinghorn ideally, Ollie Smith would do.

      1. The huge physicality of the game has injured 8-10 players. In hindsight the quality of the bench (as well as the Irish mindset) the biggest difference. Compare Henshaw – Harris, C.Healy – Berghan, Conan – Watson, Gibson Park – Price

      2. Anybody who thinks Fagerson is a better No.8 than Dempsey is clearly influenced by something other than rugby ability. There is no comparison, Dempsey is on a different level and if we want to compete against the best teams in the world we need to move on from sentimental favourites like J.Gray, Price,Brown, possibly Watson. But I suspect we will need a new coach to do that.

      3. I liked having both in the team. It was the the first time I can remember we had parity in the collisions against Ireland. It’s at the expense of either an out-and-out fetcher like Darge, or our captain, so everyone fit it isn’t likely, but I thought it worked.

        I agree that Dempsey was exceptional against Ireland, though. Carried for 40m, 22 tackles. He has the vibe of somebody who’s been given a second chance and is damned if he isn’t going to get everything out of it.

  47. With Russell and Hogg out for Italy what’s the preferred options. New cap Healy at 10 and Kinghorn at 15 or Kinghorn 10 and Smith 15.

    On a separate issue what’s going wrong at the line out. Everything. Ashman has been terrific previously and Brown is having howlers but GT persists. I think GT should be in the next specsavers advert. Two games ago he was heading for a lucrative contract (somewhere) now reappointment at Gala job centre.

    1. The hooker throwing % are so much higher with R.Gray/Gilchrist or both… is a lock issue rather than hooker? Perhaps our locks are not getting high enough, getting their timing correct.

      1. Seems a possibility – certainly more worth pursuing than the knee-jerk abuse of GT (and Brown).

      2. Totally right about the knee jerk response. We are behind Ireland, that is a unavoidable fact. But I feel Scotland have looked very well coached this championship. If we beat Italy, I think Toonie has made a decent (though arguable) case for a contract extension even if 3 wins is basically par for us now. Changing coaches doesn’t automatically reap dividends as we can see from Wales and England.

        Brown was not the cause of our lineout woes.

    2. Definitely an emotional response due to a disappointing second half so only half truths. I think GT should stay on for the WC and a change at this late stage wouldn’t be wise.

  48. Lets get right down to the big question . Did Ireland win that game or Did Scotland lose it ?

    Despite the fact we were never ahead on the score board, I think the latter.

    We know we could have done better against the world number one’s. We had a confidence melt down and went back to the old days.

    We are good enough , we are , world number 5 is good enough. This is now about more games, more tough games, more games where we win through the adversity and those days are coming :)

    Get through the world cup , don’t take it too seriously and next 6 nations we will come second.

    We will win a grand slam this decade.

    1. A game of ‘What if’ … my thought is what if we got the 2 tries in 1st half that went begging. It was a game that Scotland lost in the 2nd half but Ireland also won with their experience and Hansen’s Game. Game of inches

    2. I love your optimism about winning a Grand Slam. I think we could be doing better and we’re getting 30-50 mins of good performances per match but we’re often buckling under pressure and not achieving the consistency on the field that we could. A lack of depth is one factor (especially front row) and with the size and quality of the big picture of Scottish rugby we’re currently doing pretty well.

      In reality we’re not close to matching France or Ireland but sport is often unpredictable and other factors fall into match outcomes. Perhaps in the next few years we will come better than 3rd in the 6 Nations but on paper we don’t merit it.

      Really exciting watching Russell, Tuipulotu and Jones develop. Shame Russell is injured but it might be the opportunity to field Healy as we need greater depth at 10. It’s not a crucial match vs Italy so why not.

    3. Can’t see it happening.. where is the depth of talent for future teams going to come from. There has to be a revolution
      in the development of underage teams.

  49. Couple of concerns for Saturday – first is 6 day turn around for forwards after Ireland game. It was a hard physical game. Second is Toonie selection to replace injured and just pick his favourite boys (e.g. Price/Brown)

  50. Just please NO……Brown, J Gray, Berghan, Watson, Harris. Either past it …or just not good enough for test level success. I don’t think it’s a risk replacing them with inexperienced players who are in form…they all looked sub standard v Ireland.

    …and NO Kinghorn at 10…..he is a 15 or 4th choice winger.

    I’d have …Ashman, Henderson, Nel, Healy , Horne, McDowell/Redpath, Smith, Crosbie/Bayliss all included in the 23 …

    GT is far too slow to replace players that he rates from any perceived historical successes……he is not selecting on form and not selecting in a way that allows appropriate pathway for upcoming players…he selects on loyalty and stubbornness.

    1. I think Toonie will start a fit Hogg no matter what kind of form he is. He also found a way to sneak Price into the 23 despite him doing nothing to merit ousting Horne. Brown is another one who seems in regardless of form.
      I really hope we don’t have deja vu after he went with Duncan Taylor and Barclay at the RWC because we all know how well that ended. As HC he has a duty to select on merit and not who he’s pals with. Loyalty to Scotland and not individual players.

  51. My view is that for Saturday we need to maintain some form of consistency in squad selection. The tinkering with the squad can be done in the summer.

    1. Schoemann, 2. Turner, 3. Fagerson, 4. Cummings, 5. J Gray, 6. Ritchie, 7. Watson, 8. Fagerson. 9. White, 10. Healy, 11. van der Merwe, 12. Tuipolotu, 13. Jones, 14. Steyn, 15. Kinghorn.
    16. Ashman, 17. Bhatti, 18. Nel, 19. Skinner, 20. Dempsey, 21. Horne, 22. Harris, 23. Smith

    My opinion is that Duhan starts because there is no one else, but his defence makes him a liability against a good team. I’m glad Monty Ioane is back in Oz.

    Brown is done, Ashman has been in the squad so deserves a chance

    I thought Dempsey was brilliant on Sunday but I’d go with an extra jackler this weekend in Watson and bring Dempsey on for some impact.

    Russell has played every minute (bar one) this tournament so Kinghorn is clearly injury cover, and excellent at fullback, so we need to get Healy in the team to see what he can do. Hastings, Thompson are injured. Tom Jordan is a couple of years away from qualifying (sad face) so no more options other than Savala who has just made it into the squad.

    Price has been poor, Horne is a bundle of energy that will scare most defences at 60 minutes.

    1. So you wouldn’t tinker…..but you’ve tinkered??
      you have suggested…
      Healy, Ashman, Horne, Nel, Smith into the 23….and yeah let’s drop our best performing player from the Ireland match..to slot in Watson ..an aging and out form, for about 18 months, dedicated 7. I don’t see the difference between that and additionally replacing some more out of form players in a match that doesn’t have huge meaning now.

      At any rate…its surely about playing our best in form players in their natural positions…its not ‘tinkering’ its about playing the best available players to us. It seems to me GT isn’t doing that…he’s picking his aging out of form mates instead.

  52. Heres an interesting team…………15.Smith 14.Kinghorn 13.Jones 12.Tuipolotu 11.VDM 10.Healy 9.White
    8.Dempsey 7.Crosbie 6.Ritchie 5.Skinner 4.Cummings 3.Nel 2.Turner 1.Schoeman
    Steyn Maitland Horne Fagerson J.Gray
    Fagerson Ashman Bhatti

    1. I would love to see that team. The only change I would make is Redpath or Rory Hutchinson (remember him) for Steyn.

  53. Rory can you give all these people posting teams a warning please, it’s cramming up the chat.

    1. Please, if you have to post endless variations on the same team, post in a single line horizontally across the way. As it does indeed cram up the chat.

  54. Team for weekend. Give the B team a run, its only Italy

    Smith – Kinghorn – Harris (C) – Redpath – Maitland – Healy – Horne – Dempsey – Crosbie – Christie – Skinner – Henderson – Fagerson – Ashman – Schoeman

    Jones – White – Fagerson – Ritchie – Cummings – Nel – Sutherland – Turner

    A good time to see how the reserves do for WC.

    1. I genuinely think we might lose this, which would be a total disaster.

      Russell and Hogg are such big personalities I just don’t know who will step up to lead the backs in their absence. If Italy get a sniff of a chance in the game they will throw the kitchen sink at us. We need to keep our heads and play sensibly.

      Hope Healy starts at 10. Think we should aim to pin Italy in their half and wait for mistakes. We still have plenty of threats and don’t want to let Italy get comfortable.

      1. Hogg has been a quite magnificent player but some of our best performances have been with Maitland at FB. Furthermore we have threats all over the backline, Healy (GT may still pick Kinghorn) is a good 10 who will be able to pick our dangerous backs out

      2. John: I agree. We just need someone to do the basics at Fullback IMO .

        Stuart Hogg ,came along at a time where we were dire , he was a shining light , we depended on it, it was right. Now we are a team that can do a lot of damage , and we have had great performances both with and without Hogg. But the fans still feel insecure. What was wrong and is still wrong is the fans perception of dependance. He will be on my team sheet for a while yet, but we need to demonstrate we can break the dependance.

        Maitland (age) is not the man for that however he was inspirational when standing in, one was against 14 man Australia , one was against England the 38-38 draw, probably the most compelling 80 minutes of rugby in the last decade. Both huge scalps to claim.

        The big issue for me , our top 3 standoffs are injured . If we dont have a reliable 10 we will be forced to bring the ball back in to the pack , or the blindside winger and frankly , an arm wrestle with Italy is never a spectacle, after a 6 day turnaround , energy sapping as well.

        It is a big risk bringing in Healy, I fear our 10 will be Kinghorn and if we get far enough ahead bring on Healy. We may need to win ugly.

        The big issue without Finn , is kicking. So can George Horne partner Kinghorn?

  55. The impact of the subs was the main issue for me at the weekend. Granted we don’t have the depth of the other nations, but I do think we don’t help ourselves sometimes.

    Andrew Porter played 80 mins. Why did we need to take the entire front row off in one go with 30 to play? Those three were a big part of the go-forward in the tight exchanges.

    Why did Nel sit this out? (given he apparently wasn’t injured and folded his opposite number like a deckchair vs France). Sutherland is short of game time, otherwise he would have been on the bench – but Bhatti hasn’t been bad. Brown has been fine – its easy to blame the 2 but we had some LO issues when Turner was on the pitch also – Gray going off was a huge miss for us, as was the total absence of Gilchrist. That’s a lot of experience, nous and leadership gone from the pack, not to mention heft at scrum time. That loss of nous and experience manifested when JvDF started throwing in – I’m pretty certain RG would have put himself at the front.

    He gets a hard time on here but Brown has been a great servant to Scottish rugby, along with Rambo. They now need to be phased out. In Ashman we have a young dynamic player who would be a better option off the bench.

    Both George Horne and Luke Crosbie should have remained in the team/squad for both the France and Ireland games.

    For Crosbie, I didn’t really understand why he was taken out for Watson – he maybe hadn’t set the heather alight ball in hand but was very dependable in defence, added extra height at the line-out and has that bit of dog that is perhaps lacking elsewhere in the pack. Moreover, it allowed for added impetus in the second half when Dempsey came on – that injection of dynamism off the bench. The same with George Horne. That extra pace and tempo really helped to stretch the games in the second half vs England and Wales – the way the match turned out against France – quick, with open prairie aplenty – that extra bit of speed could have changed the outcome in the last 20 mins.

    Third is probably reflective of where we are. We are still punching way above our weight relative to playing pool and £ resources. A third team would really help develop the former but if there’s not the cash, there’s not the cash.

  56. Excellent post sir, lack of depth in many positions make the absence of Graham, Hastings, Darge, Thompson, Kebble, Sutherland, Walker all the harder to bear.
    Nel should start with Fagerson.
    getting the “finisher” role.
    Crosbie has good reason to be no happy. I’d have him starting.
    George Horne MUST be on the bench.
    Brown and McInally have been great servants – Ashman Harrison Robbie Smith must be integrated into squad.

    1. Kebble’s downturn in form has been very unfortunate. At his best he’s a colossus at loosehead, a giant man who is unmovable in the scrum (and can be genuinly destructive on that side too) and belies his size in the loose eith a decent workrate but he has been some way off that for a little while.

      Schoeman is unbelievable, when I revisit the stats post tournament he’ll stand out for his workrate, but for awhile Kebble looked like he wasn’t far off.

      I agree with you on starting Nel.

      1. Yeah its bizarre what’s happened to Kebble.
        Was a stick on for a while and then just completely fell away …to the point does he even play rugby anymore?

  57. I have not seen any comment on this so thought I would raise it. I am a debenture holder (from the 90s) and was at the game on Sunday. I am more and more disillusioned by quiet Scotland fan base. On Sunday, that was a home game for Ireland. Edinburgh was full of green, the stadium was all Fields of Athenry and Ireland, Ireland, Ireland …. I was there with a friend and we could not believe the big cheer when the announcer praised the full 67,000 sell out, not mentioning that it seemed that half of it was Irish. Come on SRU, make it a home advantage! On Sunday evening a friend of mine in Glasgow mentioned that his rugby playing daughter could not get a ticket as only 10 were allocated to her club.

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