Scotland v Italy: Six Nations 2023, Match Preview pt II – head to heads

138 responses

1. Great stuff as usual. Can I ask who the player is with more effective defensive ruck entries than Ritchie?

   1. The French hooker, Julien Marchand.

2. Thanks Kevin,

   What has happened in history to make Scotland ahead of the other home nations in terms of games??

   1. England were banned from 2 tournaments in the 1880s for refusing to join the IRFB. 1972 was incomplete due to the Troubles, with Ireland’s matches against Scotland and Wales not being played. Balancing that, Scotland v Wales wasn’t played in 1898, while the season before Wales didn’t play Ireland or Scotland. So I think that leaves Scotland having played one more than Wales and two more than Ireland.

      1. Thanks for the history…Good to know

3. Why is the formatting screwed up on android?

   1. It was probably never designed for android but it is not that bad and it isvesting on rectification is time consuming and costly. Lets just appreciate what we have for now.

      1. Hit the 3 dots in chrome and select “desktop site” and it works fine on android

4. For once I am glad we are first game. We can just focus first on getting the win, then the BP, then maybe try to open up and score some points if it’s on, or consolidate if it’s not. Catching France is probably not realistic, except very temporarily, so I’ll be happy if we are clearly out of Englands potential grasp by the end of the game.

5. A centre pairing of Hugo Southwell and Andy Craig in 2005. Grim times were those.

   1. Do you miss them ?

6. As always, thank you for your service Kevin. These articles are a lovely addition to game weeks.

7. Jonny Gray goes ahead of Barclay and Laidlaw today, to 8th in the all time Scotland cap list. Amazing how long he’s been around given he’s 29. Hard to say if he fully delivered on his early promise, but he’s always given everything he has for the dark blue, and no doubt he will today.

   Win this well, and you’d have to be churl to say it wasn’t a good tournament for us. We’ve made good teams look ordinary, and exceptional teams look merely very very good. Go well today lads.

8. Well…surprise , surprise…we are making an average to poor looking side seem like tier1.

   Watson anonymous …yet again! Isn’t playing at test level.
   Kinghorn …a jittery mess as a 10…but scored a 15’s try.

   Absolute waste of many fortunate opportunities…Scotland of old at the try line.

   There goes yet another chance of an ’80 minute performance’ …the GT reach continues.

9. World class performance from Scotland.

   Time to bring on George Horne to add that extra injection of pace and energy to finish the job now.

   Oh wait..

10. phew – very fortunate there with us hanging on at end. Great last try

    Italy were better team and deserved to win

11. Good resilience shown at the end but overall a pretty awful performance in attack (defence was decent). Italy can feel hard done by the ref i think.

    Wales deserve the wooden spoon this six nations, not Italy.

    1. Even though wales best Italy comfortably in Rome??? Funny old world

       1. FF that was a funny game umpteen Italy line breaks squandered, 17 Wales pens not acted upon.
          We were never far enough ahead to knock the stuffing out of them yesterday.
          Watched the Ireland v England game In the splendid Black Fox pub, loads of thinking to be done how to match that level of intensity and physicality

       2. Wow – how intensely physical was that pub?

    2. What happened to 50 point crushing you predicted ?

       1. Morning Buddy boy, now you have almost certainly got a better memory than me but even at my advanced age I cannot remember predicting such a thing….. I have whing about BK at 10 and GT, but……Happy to be proved wrong

       2. Sorry John , Meant for Neil , I am just rubbish at find the right place to slot my comment in. Bit like Townsend. When he gets a favorite, he slots him in anywhere

          Or maybe I am still traumatized from yesterday.

          hang on , I did click ‘reply’ under Neil’s name.

12. Flattering scoreline. Abysmal performance. Second row is powder puff without R Gray and Gilchrist.

    1. I think Finn would have opened up that Italian defence on three occasions during the first half alone, but Scotland have to learn to play without him. What needs to improve? 1. The forwards have not been sufficiently dominant and are as slow as treacle: some are well past their best. 2. A reliable kicker. 3. An attacking 10, and don’t ever play Kinghorn at 10, it is a waste of his talents.

13. Just awful from us…
    Italy ..poor…we tried ever so hard to give them a win.
    Game transpired exactly how I thought it would pre match.
    Kinghorn is a 15 all day long……and please not a 10!.
    Dempsey played pretty well. Should be Watsons last game…unless we have multiple injuries and no one from the pub fancies a game.

    Postitives?..we won a match.

14. We used to be a really good team on the floor. Italy were better than us and looking after the ball and stealing ours. And it was one of the keys to losing to Ireland.

15. 15 out of 17 tries by the backs. Not for want of trying by the forwards. Need some work there.

16. We’ll be humiliated at the RWC playing like that….let alone just not make it out the group. If that’s our level it’ll even be a grind v Tonga.

17. I can live with Price being in the 23 although it is harsh on Horne. Time for Hogg, Watson and Brown to make way for the new guard before the RWC. Kinghorn has to be the starting 15 going forward. His kicking as a 10 is just not up to it at test level. Steyn has done a fine job filling in but we miss Darcy badly.

    Thought Ashman was disappointing today but hopefully he’ll come good again. J Gray can barely run in the loose. We really missed R Gray and Gilchrist these past 2-3 games. Dempsey was the shining light for carrying well and showing great footwork. The 8 shirt is his to lose now.

18. ireland getting done for wheeling a scrum!! who’d have thought?

19. Thrilling try at end papered over cracks somewhat.
    Kinghorn 3 tries but pretty meh actual mechanics of being a 10 (maybe because he’s no a 10) , very good back 3.
    Both locks pedestrian, Italy easily got parity in forwards. We were 1 play away from losing.Dempsey Schoeman pick of the forwards, Crosbie-/Darge over Watson too
    So miss Russell and Graham.

    1. Agreed… Kinghorn has potential to be an elite running FB at test level…but at 10?..absolutely not. He does not have the passing or game management ability for that. Hogg would have been a better FB to 10 conversion than Kinghorn..but that would clearly not worked out either. I just don’t know what GT is playin at with that one. It seems obvious to everyone else watching.

       Our locks are ok at best …and we didn’t have the OK ones today. Instead we had meek Johnny the treacle runner and hybrid lock Skinner. Great chance to see what Henderson could do.. missed.
       Watson?…should not have been playing. He looks sooo far off the pace at this level now. He’s done imo. Id have Darge,Crosbie and Bayliss all ahead of him.
       We are a fraction of the side without Russell and Graham (though Steyn is a solid replacement) Good to see Healy get slightly more than 2 minutes before GT drops him for no real reason.
       Some questions got answered this 6N…only for more questions to come up.

       1. Add Christie to the list of back rows currently ahead of Watson (sorry to say).

20. Time for Townsend to move on in favor of a world class coach.

    1. Haven’t you heard, apparently the SRU have opened negotiations to renew his contract. It seems obvious after our magnificent runs in the 6N and World Cup.Better secure his services before NZ or SA come after him.

       1. Yep…that sounds awesome..4 more years of underachieving. We’ll show those top nations….

       2. Why would we want to get rid of Toony.

          Not is fault we had a 6 day turnaround. Ireland did not look to good yesterday either.

    2. So we’ll be phoning Gatland then?

21. They’re welcome to him .

    1. New contract??….urgh!..Does he or the SRU realize how close we were today to throwing away the game to a side that was mediocre at best?? ..Anyone watching today that thought either Italy or ourselves produced a good team performance needs a check up from the neck up. We were a few meters in the dying minutes to a loss…to a team that looked like they couldn’t score in a brothel for most of the match.

       1. Toony was fortunate enough to arrive at a time when some key talents had either emerged or were about to do so, but like many of his team selections, it would be fair to describe his track record as a curate’s egg.

          There have been high points – his record v. England, wins against Australia and even the odd success against France and Ireland. However, there remains (at least in my mind) the feeling that Scotland ought to have done better during Toony’s reign, given the players at his disposal.

          He botched RWC 19 to the extent that it seems inevitable that Scotland will bow out at the group stages in successive tournaments. That on its own is unacceptable.

          And then there’s his man-management and team selections, neither of which are amongst his strengths. From the ill-fated ‘world’s fastest rugby’ mantra to the selection of unfit players (Taylor and Barclay at RWC 19 being prime examples) and the passing over of those who are in-form in favour of those who are hit a rough patch, he’s had fans (and, most likely, players) scratching their heads on numerous occasions.

          It’s time to pass the reins to someone else to see if they can extract that bit extra from what is a very decent squad of players.

       2. Stripe you have taken the words out of my mouth . However there are some maybe many who want him to stay. I struggle to understand why although the mantra is often along the lines of he has the best record of any coach.

22. Well a curates egg of a tournament. Finished with a very odd game. Jonny grey seems to get the ball. Run a couple of yards and fall down prior to any meaningful tackle? He may do a lot defensively but we need dynamism in forward pack. All of them

    We have a small player pool and for World Cup injuries are going to be vital for us With luck and sympathetic referees

    The best of the rest seems to be the consensus. Now how do we progress?

23. I suppose there will be a section asking for reflections on the 6N , but as a curtain closure , that one left more questions than answers.

24. It’s good to see Scotland improving with 3 wins and some players coming through and looking comfortable at this level. Jamie Ritchie said we had 4 and a half good performances, however,I would put it at no more than 3, one good half in each game and the odd 5/10 minutes here and there.

    1. I laughed when Ritchie said that. Think he was plucking a figure from thin air as I can’t believe he genuinely thought they played well for 90% of the time. Closer to 60%.

25. First things first – we looked knackered yesterday. Given the physicality of the Ireland game, and the emotional impact of losing, playing another test less than six days later was a hell of an ask. We also had a third of our starters missing, including our entire leadership team bar Ritchie. To be missing key leaders in attack (Russell), defense (Gilchrist), tactical kicking (Hogg) and lineout (Gray) and still finding a way to win and nab a bonus point at the end of an utterly draining seven days, does speak to a level of resolve that’s been missing in the past.

    Kinghorn at ten is still a weird one. His passing is of professional fly half standard, and you could argue he’s a top 3 running 10 in the world. His main problem is it’s always painfully obvious which one he’s going to do. There’s no disguise, no toying with the defensive line. If he could add that, we’d be talking about a ten worthy of lacing Finn’s boots. He’s got a way to go still though. But the cupboard really was bare – if he hadn’t shifted him to 10, we’d have been looking at two debutants in at stand off, neither of whom start for their clubs.

    Positives – our defence was relentless right to the end, Dempsey was unbelievable again, the try at the end was sublime.

    Negatives – nightmarish penalty count, the last quarter was pretty unstructured (although Price showed his value with some great tactical kicks).

26. 6n ponderings – 2nd DVDM try v England has a place in my heart forever, 2nd half v Wales is amongst the best halves of my rugby watching decades. If you’d offered me 3 wins at the start I’d likely have taken it. Hard to beat France away (again) and Ireland are just brilliant.
    However Brown overthrow, the whole game yesterday, the dumb selections (Crosbie Cummings & Healy should have definitely started yesterday). Really miss Finn Russell and Darcy Graham, is Hogg no longer the player he was. GT should not be offered a new contract

27. Why is no one talking up Duhan. All game he ran round them, he ran through them, he assited in the Kinghorn 3rd try. If Bill McLaren were around , he would call him ‘the baby faced assassin’.

28. re Kinghorn – he has plenty of strengths but his lack of a kicking game is a real weakness at 10 – just makes it easier to defend. Agree that Ireland game knocked the stuffing out of us. Anyway 3 wins not too bad – my issue is whether we can get to a higher level. Somehow doubt it

    1. Yes I often read about GT and players noting the ‘easy’ changes supposedly required to take our game to the highest of levels…nothing is easy to make that jump though and I don’t know why they say it. The last few percentage improvements id say are the hardest.
       In addition, The teams all around us are not sitting still…and have the same challenges with their sides. It’ll take a substantial jump from us to get on par not a baby step. We’ll either need a new HC team or GT changes and improves his selections and finds better support coaches to fix lineout and breakdown issues… I can’t see it…but live in hope.

       1. We just need to focus on precision and getting the basics right 100%. That is largely true for both the defence and attack, kicking has been generally good too, but errors at the set piece and discipline are self inflicted wounds.

29. Telegraph team of the Tournament announced and contains 3 scots ? Let me start by saying who is not there: Hogg, Duhan, Finn, Price, Richie or Watson. Nope , not one of Toony’s favorite’s. Who did make it ? Turner , Zander and Huw Jones made the final selection.

    1. You lost me at Turner…

       Why on earth would Watson or Price be in it?? I could pick 7 or 8 15s before they’d even be considered.

       1. Couldnt we all, I think his point is Toony still picks them.

    2. Sunday session?

30. Every waken moment for all the coaching staff between now & the world cup is who do we play / how do we play / how do we beat Ireland / SA.
    Alas I posted something similar 4 years ago and what transpired was an absolute disgrace from start to finish.
    Hope that GT has learnt enough to at least give it a real lash

    1. Looking to the summer tests, is playing France twice good preparation for Ireland and South Africa? Regardless of results it’s a different challenge and we won’t learn much we don’t already know. The Italy and Georgia games inevitably will do more for them than us.

       1. > Is playing France twice good preparation for Ireland and South Africa?

          Probably? At least as good as we can get without actually playing those two. They’re one of the top 3 teams right now and present a massive physical challenge. Will let us at least see where our first team is.

          I’d like to see us continue with our first team for at leats 2-3 of the warm up games. We’ve changed our starting centre, half-back, 2nd row and back row combinations in the last year and, while all the changes are correct, we need as much time to get them gelled effectively as possible. Especially as ideally we’ll change the back 3 as well (Graham coming back and Kinghorn starting).

          One of the many mistakes of 2019 was the ridiculous chopping and changing in the warm-ups which meant our first team never actually had a run out together. We should know the full squad who are going now and only use these players.
          I’d use the Georgia game as more of a run out for guys like Horne/Price, Hastings, Redpath, Harris, Sutherland, Crosbie etc who won’t be starting but may need to step in in the case of injuries.

       2. Interesting point about know most of the RWC squad. I think we do but there are a few important decisions on those places up for grabs. I think it’ll look something like this –

          Forwards (19)
          Front row: Schoeman, Turner, Fagerson / Sutherland, Ashman, Nel / Bhatti, Brown, Berghan
          Second row: R Gray, Gilchrist, Cummings, J Gray
          Back row: Fagerson, Dempsey, Ritchie, Crosbie, Darge, AN Other

          Question is might Murphy Walker be fast tracked into TH in Berghan’s place?
          Also, who goes in last squad place between Skinner/Watson/Muncaster/Christie/Baylis? Or does Skinner edge out Gray as a more flexible player allowing an extra backrow?

          BACKS (14)

          SH: White, Price, Horne
          FH: Russell, AN Other
          Centres: Jones, Tuipolotu, Redpath, AN Other
          Back 3: Hogg, Kinghorn, VDM, Graham, Steyn

          Who backs up Russell at FH? Healy/Hastings or maybe even Thompson. Does Finn Smith get another pitch to join the REC squad?

          Who is last centre? Lots of options but could Steyn cover centre and wing, allowing Rowe to join the conversation. Or Hutchison come in from the cold as a utility back? Could Harris really fail to make the RWC squad.

          In any case, I think ignoring fitness disruptions we only have question marks over 4/5 places in the 33 man squad.

       3. @FF looks like I posted below at about the same time but gonna answer here as well.

          Front 5 is the only real area with spots to fill. The six nations highlighted that our ostensible 3rd picks (Bhatti and Berghan) aren’t good enough and can’t be relied on.

          Skinner can’t cover 6 at international level imo. He’s just nowhere near as dynamic as someone like Lawes, Beirne or Du Toit. This means Watson sneaks into the extra spot as potential captain vs Romania.

          Hastings and Harris have too much experience to leave out. They’ve been part of so many squads and have both delivered multiple times. As much as I want a player like Hutchinson to come good, it just doesn’t look likely to happen.

          I completely forgot about Rowe but looks unlikely he’ll be in contention unfortunately. Has a mountain to climb getting back into London Irish’s back 3 to begin with.

          Either way, in terms of experience and locked down positions in the squad, it’s pretty inarguable to say we aren’t in a far better position than previous WCs. Just a shame we’ll be kicked out at the group stage regardless!

31. Guys: to summarise your comments that I agree with: farewell Mish, Jonny, Ali and Hogg (with grand thanks). Also the inevitable old huffing squint Brown and puffing bull Nel. That’s before your own preferred dispensibles. No team can work if its future isn’t its prime focus beyond old favourites.

    GT after RWC? Depends on the market and SRU. His application to France (rejected) doesn’t instil loyalty but, one infers, came from lack of SRU confidence in him. Who else has better awareness than GT of our national strengths and weaknesses? Ok, some weird selections, like Kingspan at 10 when he should be the champion 15 replacing tired Hogg.

    But so many negative comments about GT on this forum are not GT’s fault. Fault of development culture. Witness Under 20s. Our boys beaten 17-40 by Italy this w/e at Scotstoun who finished third in the table. Scotland 5/6 in the table. Ireland are Under 20s 6N winners because of development and therefore also World No1. Logic? Duh! Who needs to get it?

    1. Interesting post but no one is criticising GT for the u20s, for as you say that not in his control. But what is firmly in his control is bringing back into the fold two of the players in your “farewell with honour” list in mid tournament and dropping two strong performers (Horne and Crosbie) from a winning side.
       Scotland has enough issues with a small player base, we can’t carry a coach who is unable to select the best 23 we have available.

       1. Ian,

          I still think Townsend is doing huge amounts we don’t see and Ali Price was on to manage a lead on Sat and he did that with others making the errors putting us under pressure….he did more than ok when on. I think we’ll be set back for at least 18 months if we change coach so be careful what you wish for…we have won 3 of 5 matches in 5 of the last 7 six nations.. That is dream land given what had gone before in the history of this tournament and yes even in Vern Cotter era.

          However you are right in what you say. Both in hindsight and at the time many felt we lost the thing we needed when Horne wasn’t selected and it proved the case…certainly against France it was knife edge….

          And looking back Crosbie did stuff that wasn’t there when he was omitted….but I would rather a coach that thinks horses for courses than never changes a winning team…proactive rather than reactive but maybe just the wrong changes this tournament.

          A fundamental issue we’ve had in Hogg and Ritchie captain eras is knowing when to take the three we’ve got that way wrong and then taking a scrum which eats into gametime we don’t have.

          Listened back to French match last night…we take one 3points on any of the failed attacks we are a 1 point game going into final 10 mins.

          On Sat we take 3 at any stage we are likely too far ahead to be in danger.

          We have to change this attack for try time on every attack..whether chasing the game or not.

       2. Referendum : I can barely understand what you are saying but from what I can understand , what makes you think we will go back 18 months , where is that coming from? There is some momentum in the team to go forward , whomever is the head coach , however we are likely to see a poor world cup and that will kill momentum.

          Gregor Townsend is not perfect , it was known before he was appointed. He has also done a lot of good things like opened the pool to include more , however at what expense. George Horne and Crosbie nust be wondering why ? Every season we have someone given the cold shoulder for no apparent reason (Adam Hastings etc) I have to wonder how much more Toony can bring us or will it be more of the same ?

          As a head coach I suspect a big part is getting to know your players as people to get the best from them. How can you do that with a revolving door.

          Sometimes change for the sake of it is good.

    2. So Toonie approached France (club or country) ? Cant blame him, his contract runs out soon.

       Rejected ? I wonder why he was rejected. He has his faults, who doesn’t.

       I think he is of the opinion there is something better out there .Sometimes the something better is under your nose. George Horne being the most recent example. Who knows, maybe he is a cheeky wee lad in camp.

       1. This wasn’t the story at all, unless the poster above has their own sources – which I doubt.

          Townsend was approached by Galthie about his interest about applying for the French assistant coach role after the RWC, when he might be a free agent.

          Townsend told reporters he wouldn’t be holding any negotiations until after the 6N, he wanted to stay as Scotland coach but the decisions wasn’t his.

          It isn’t at all surprising he is being tapped up now as the post-RWC merry go round will kick off before the tournament ends…also why the SRU we’re getting expressions of interest from Leon McDonald and others, although it bows seems Scotland’s performance might have secured Toonie an extension.

       2. I noticed the TV Camera in the dressing room picked up Toonie and Galthie having a chat. Thanks for the clarity FF. Not an easy call for the SRU either. The appointment of Toonie and the ousting of Cotter was really messy IMO. I am sure they do not want to in another messy situation.

32. Watched the game on playback. As a pundit Barclay is the finished article. Hoggy in moonboot , looks knackered, he should put his feet up. Got a bit of a hard question, oh I felt for him, he never answered it , so he is getting better , but if you are fogging, make it relevant. He just needs to work on thinking on his dancing feet. He just repeated the same pish the others were talking about the italian try.

    I thought Johnson came across well, maybe not the image for TV but great punditry and really shares the thoughts that go through a players mind in a situation. Did not drag England into the conv, showed empathy for both sides and talked them up.

    1. Hogg looks like his time in rugby has caught up with him.
       As you say… he looks knackered…I feel that if GT continues with him ..we are watching another Duncan Taylor RWC rerun…ditto Watson.

33. I feel for Crosbie, plays two games and scotland record their best results then gets dropped and scotland record 3 faltering results. He was a bit anonymous but I feel his work goes unnoticed. In general the way the breakdown is now refereed, ball carrying and tackling is more valuable than jackalling. Ireland, France and Italy are throwing extra players into the tacke zone before the tackle is complete to drive a dominant collision. those extra players then stay on their feet, go past the ball and either clear out jacklers before then even reach the ball carrier or go into a guard poisition well beyond the ball effectively sealing it off. There are virtually no jackal opportunities against these teams. The other teams including Scotland are not doing this. Scotland are prioritising tackle success above turnovers. This is probably sensible but then pick big tacklers rather than jacklers!

    1. I agree on Crosbie doing a lot of unseen work. With the 6N now finished our best backrow IMO is Ritchie, Crosbie and Dempsey and we never even got to see those three start together. I don’t know if Toonie is blinded by loyalty to his senior players and saw Crosbie as keeping Watson’s place warm for him. I just get the feeling that senior players in the leadership group (Hogg, Price, Watson etc) get more opportunities than the likes of Kinghorn, Horne and Crosbie regardless of form.

       I also feel that Scotland have benefited from a resurgent Glasgow and in particular the Jones/Tuipolotu partnership which has been a big plus in this campaign. Franco Smith and Pete Horne also deserve a bit of credit. Hopefully Steve Diamond can revive Edinburgh because for Scotland to succeed we need both clubs to be in good shape.

       1. I found Watsons choice for France game strange but the Italy game i just thought it was a result of the lost leadership elsewhere.

       2. This is a great point. Ritchie was without basically all of his lieutenants, and there wasn’t a lot of experience in the lineup.

       3. Agree with points regarding 1st choice back row and also the inequity of opportunities in the squad. One thing I’d add is that M Fagerson looked burned out this 6N…he needs time out before the RWC. GT is definitely blinded by loyalty…I don’t know how anyone can honestly say he is picking the test 23 on form and current merit.

          As far as our Italy and 2nd half Ireland performance….I don’t think it’s any coincidence that our lineout reverted back to the shambles it was before Ritchie Gray made a return to the test side. When he isn’t there we quickly go from having a competing lineout to a hot mess and a target area for opposition. Combined with none of our hookers played especially well such that I hope P Harrison gets expedited in his development..because to me he looks our best future bet.

          For me , that’s one of the biggest concerns, who is coaching the lineout and breakdown??…becuase we look like we have regressed significantly in those areas. Why do we consistently look like we only had a quick lineout practice at the car park before the game?

34. Huw Jones and Simone Tuipuloto selected
    In Planet Rugby’s team of the tournament

    1. What about the great lion Chris Harris? And all the Chris Harris fans on here saying Harris and Jones are horses for courses. I’d like to know what course Harris would start on before the world class Jones?

       1. Literally no-one is saying that any more.

          As a Harris stan, I’m delighted to say that he isn’t first choice any more. The big change here is that Huwipulotu have come on leaps and bounds in terms of their defence over the past year. Working together at Glasgow doubtless helps. Tui is still relatively new to this level, but his confidence in attack and defence is game-changing for us.

          And yet, despite their unquestionable improvement, our defence has suffered from a lack of Harris. People seem to have suddenly noticed that DVDM sometimes looks and bit ponderous in his defensive decision making. This is not a new problem, it’s just that Harris has been covering for him for the last three years. He’s a world class defender and defensive organiser, and we do miss him in that regard. It’s just that Jones’s defense has improved faster than Harris’s attack.

    2. Huw Jones just missed out on ESPN team of the 6N.
       Tuipulotu made it though, as did Schoeman. Quite right.

       As for calls to drop Watson, Jonny Gray, Hogg, Price from the RWC squad. Absolute madness. You don’t ditch your most experienced players just because they’re not playing like they used to. Obviously if their form drops over the next couple of months then you think about it, but not straight after our most successful 6N in years. That experience will come in very handy when it’s back to the walls stuff in a tight test.

       Thought Ritchie had a pretty good championship as a player, but only 3/10 as a captain. Hopefully he’ll learn from these games but having those guys around him at the RWC will make his job that much easier.

       1. Merlot: Three words: High Maintenance ego. No room for that in a team.

35. I reckon my 1st choice 4 back rowers for the RWC – Dempsey Darge Ritchie Crosbie.

    1. I’d agree there.Add in Fagerson and there’s only one back row spot,at most,left for a 33 man RWC squad.Can’t see the need for Watson in there so if all fit it should be between Christie,Bayliss and Bradbury.
       Sorry Hamish!

       1. You’re quite happy to ditch Hamish after a single below par performance, but at the same time picking Darge who has only played an hour of rugby in the last 5 months, and that was against Zebre! I think both Watson and Darge will take time to come back after their injuries, but I wouldn’t write either off from making the RWC.

       2. It’s not a single performance from Mish, he hasn’t been the same since the Lions. However I agree with you on Darge. We need to see if he can rediscover his pre-injury form, he’s still a way off, but getting better.

36. Correct sir, I like Muncaster too but sept too early for him.
    Darge adds the go forward dynamism from the back row that could be crucial.

37. Warm-ups now the only games left. RWC squad is pretty much there. Assuming no injuries, players going and those with question marks:

    Props
    Going: Schoeman, Sutherland, Fagerson, Nel
    ?: Bhatti vs Kebble, Berghan vs Walker vs McCallum
    Bhatti and Berghan not really good enough imo but each have significantly more experence than other options. I’d roll the dice with Kebble and Walker.

    Hooker
    Going: Turner
    ?: Ashman vs Mcinally vs Brown vs Cherry (2 spots)
    Ashman and Cherry for me if fit. Other two sadly past it.

    2nd row
    Going: R Gray, Gilchrist, Cummings
    ?: Skinner vs J Gray (2 spots)
    Given the skillset each of them offers (lineout caller, dynamism in carrying, etc), there is one “workhorse lock” spot available. Sorry Jonny but Skinner is the better option.

    Back row
    Going: Ritchie, Fagerson, Dempsey, Crosbie, Watson, Darge
    This one is locked up I think. Offers a lot of different skills and versatility. The larger squad size has saved Watson here. Christie or Bradbury if there are any injuries.

    SH
    Going: White, Horne, Price
    Also locked up. Really don’t want injuries but Vellacott or Dobie if there are.

    FH
    Going: Russell, Hastings
    Kinghorn as a utility 3rd option obviously. These two will be the starters. Healy or Thompson in case of injuries.

    Centres
    Going: Tuipulotu, Jones, Redpath, Harris
    Johnson and Bennett as maybes and the call-ups but this looks done. Steyn able to shift in case of emergency.

    Back 3
    Going: Hogg, VDM, Graham, Kinghorn, Steyn
    Maitland and Ollie Smith as the break-glass options. No real other contenders here.

    1. Im sure GT will pick his usual forwards for the RWC…but to me we just don’t look good enough in some spots such that we should be looking at the summer matches as chance to find the best options.
       Props: Kebble & Walker Id add…the other back ups just aren’t good enough.

       2nd row: Id like to see Henderson get a chance in the summer…if he looks the part he’d be my 4th lock…if not then Skinner or even Hunter-Hill..but J Gray would get absolutely nowhere near my squad.

       Watson would not get in my squad …Christie, Bayliss and Bradbury I’d put any in before him. Watson is done at test level.

       The backs pretty much pick themselves….
       FHs: Im not convinced Hastings will have shown enough fitness let alone form. Shoulder injuries/surgery like his are tough to get back from…especially for a rugby player. Healy should go…give him some summer game time.
       Id take McDowell ..or at least is the next up back up.

       Hogg Id take him for his experience…but really I think Kinghorn is now playing at a higher level than him and should be FB. Id have Smith instead of Maitland…his ship has sailed at test level..barring a bunch of injuries.

    2. I think on recent form the R. Gray/Gilchrist lock combination is the best choice for the two most important RWC group matches. Richie despite his advancing years has shown great form since the Autumn and Gilchrist has moved on from the cruelly dubbed ‘Inspector General of Rucks’ by one or more bloggers here to become a very good Test lock.
       As to Mish, burst on the scene in 16/17, took the entire Welsh back row apart in 6N 2017 and has been a total warrior. But if selected for the two big group games he’ll be in danger of becoming a 2023 version of Barclay in 2019 – falling off in form or simply overtaken by younger, better players.
       Hogg needs to be in the squad as he’s by no means a busted flush, but it has to be a square go between him and Kinghorn for starting 15 in the two massive group matches.
       Like others on here, I’ve got my ticket for 7 October. Both having played the Saffers before then, it’ll likely be a straight knock-out match.

38. For me Hogg hangs onto the 15 Jersey because of his kicking. IMO we need a FB who can kick (can’t run everything – DVDM and DG not noted kickers). I actually like Hastings at 15 more than 10.

    1. I wish Hogg had taken the long range penalty on the stroke of half time against Ireland. How much time does he spend in a warm up on long range kicking.

       Going in having, just nailed them for 3 from there, would have put us one ahead in the mind games.

       What is the worst that could have happened, the ball don’t go dead, they come back at us and we get a penalty further in , that is what I think.

       Bad decision Hoggy however thanks for shakin your heid and the demonstration that you are still in charge of this side.

    2. Im with you on Hastings at 15 John

       1. Agree about Hastings.

39. Right now my 23 for RWC opener against SA

    Kinghorn – Graham – Jones – Tuipolotu – VDM – Russell – White – Dempsey – Ritchie – Fagerson – R Gray – Gilchrist – Fagerson – Turner – Schoeman

    Redpath – Horne – Bradbury – Crosbie – Cummings – Nel – McInally – Sutherland

    I think we will need a 6/2 split to keep up with the Boks and they will need to be our most physical, hence Bradbury, McInally making the bench. They may not be the most active, but for a 20-25 minute burst they offer a lot of power.

    I think Kinghorns running game is far superior to Hoggs, and will cause more of the focus to be on him, providing more opportunities and space for Jones, VDM and Graham.

    1. You are angry: No room for hero’s

    2. And Kinghorns defence?It seems a forgotten aspect here.
       He’s a player I don’t enjoy watching..even when he’s attacking..because I know I’m only looking at half a rugby player.l see a man where self-preservation is the main objective on the pitch and it’s most obvious in defence.Taking high balls under pressure ain’t for him,half-hearted tackles are.
       To say he’s faking it may be harsh but honestly,that’s what I’m seeing…playing him at 15-no thanks.

       1. Are you not getting mixed up ? Think you are talking about Stuart Hogg.

       2. Kinghorn’s tackle completion rate this tournament was 85%. Puts him third among players that played 15 (after Allan and, um, Hogg). Better than Keenan, Ramos, Steward or Williams.

          I know what you mean – there’s something about the way he carries himself that makes it feel like he’s not giving his all. But his positioning is smart and, all in all, he’s a pretty efficient defender.

       3. Interesting stat…but as usual what they don’t say is what the result of the missed tackle was and where it was missed.
          If the completed tackles save tries etc ..fair enough…but with with Hogg for eg his last ditch tackles and positioning for the tackle is pathetic.

40. If we’ve to have any chance of beating (gulp!) either SA or Ireland, there can’t be any walking wounded in the squad let alone in the starting XV. Nor should Toony take along off-colour players in the hope that they’ll somehow play themselves into form, no matter who they are or how well they’ve done in the past.

    It’ll mean making some harsh choices but needs must if we’re to have any chance of escaping that group by anything other than the door marked ‘exit’.

41. The all blacks have a new coach apparently. No No No , No : It is not Toony. Just content yourselves , please. We are in a period of negotiation and brinkmanship.

    1. Yep Robertson in…
       We should be talking to the likes of Jamie Joseph and Leon MacDonald about becoming our HC in ’24.
       Even if they favor GT….would be ridiculous to just sign GT to a new contract before the RWC.
       IF he does well….sure…if he doesnt want it after doing well ..thats fine too….there are really good alternative options out there.
       Id like Joseph in…if he wants it. I reckon he would suit our rugby style..and would rebuild without favorites.

42. Hogg article in BBC sports saying he would like GT to remain as Scotland coach. I wonder why? ‘He selects me’ so I like him

    1. Pretty much. Hogg needs to earn that 15 shirt and show some serious form between now and the RWC.

       On a separate note I saw that Cotter has quit Fiji which is surprising given they have a great chance to reach the RWC QF’s. I wonder if it’s some kind of contractual dispute.

       1. Hogg is struggling both at club level and test level for fitness and form….imo Kinghorn has overtaken him …as may have some of his Exeter teammates.
          Now he has a dodgy ankle…still I’m sure GT will pick him regardless virtue of the Duncan Taylor RWC squad sponsorship award.

       2. RuggersB , that is very true Hogg is winding down and he knows it, the point that you’ve made is probably why he wants Townsend to remain after the word cup.

       3. I can see proving himself to a new coach would be a concern, for any member of the current squad , such is the talent pool.

          Why would he not say he wants Toony to stay, he isnt daft. Turkeys do not vote for christmas , do they ! and he is pretty far up the pecking order for a stuffing, according to the commenters in this blog. (how many puns can I get in 1 comment)

       4. Saint : Vern Cotter : We should not speculate. Could be anything, he is human. Suffice to say a loss for Fiji and I wish him well whatever the future holds. Great coach for Scotland , I hope he is not lost to the game.

       5. Bass Rock: Thanks for the reply although I think it was clear that “I wonder if it’s some kind of contractual dispute.” is hardly ill intended speculation. This board is riddled with speculation about GT and so let’s just keep things in perspective.

       6. Saint: It may well be contractual, I do not know, it has nit been disclosed , clearly a chosen position. We have english clubs in liquidation, the Welsh union caping wages, who knows what is happening in Fiji :it is a strange time. It might be you who is losing perspective over nothing. Facts are they have parted company and I personally wish Vern Cotter well in his next adventure, hopefully in Rugby Union. I should add I also wish Fiji well, they bring a dimension to this game that is entertaining and inspirational. That is all

       7. Bass rock, not sure I am losing perspective by merely wondering something given Fiji’s past issues. I’m sorry you felt the need to get on your high horse but if you are the self appointed speculation police then I look forward to seeing you call out all future posts containing the slightest hint of speculation. Let’s see how far you get with that. Feel free to have the final word as I’m not wasting any more time on this.

43. Re Hogg, very interesting……. has he just not been quite 100% fit 100% in form & given a wee bit luck can return to something approaching his best………or will he never return to something approaching his (imperious and magnificent) best.

    1. I think we’d all love to see a fit and firing Hogg, in the same way that we’d be delighted if Mish could recapture his pre-BIL form.

       I’m sure that Toony will give him (and Mish) every opportunity to show that he should be part of in the RWC squad, but my concern is that Toony does the same as he did in 2019 with Taylor and Barclay and includes him in the squad irrespective of fitness and form.

44. Stuart Hogg is 30 – seems very premature to write him off. 3 or 4 years time maybe. Fully accept he is not in great form and maybe not fully fit, but surely his past contributions should at least allow him a bit of slack and opportunity to prove himself

    1. Dont be soft. He was never a last line in defense and was always first line in attack . He joined when we were dire ,so we let it go, because it worked and we are grateful for it. He gave us a real leg up , his contribution will never , ever be forgotten.

       As we improved he still considers himself the first line in attack , but he doesn’t need to do it all himself any longer. If he wants to remain in the team he needs to be Mr average full back IMO. The road for him is not back to the future , it is accept the role of a traditional number 15 and many caps will follow, then in his twilights he is utility back for a few more. Blair Kinghorn is good enough, however Hogg’s experience counts for something. But he must adapt, enjoy these latter years, tackling like thunder, kicking like a cannon, cover back like a shadow and just running far enough to connect with the big cheeses like DVM and Darcy. Just my opinion, others will differ, lets hear it.

       1. Up till recently the concept of other big cheeses as been overlooked in the eyes of adoring fans hence the growing spate of restlessness about who owns the 15 shirt. It has been going on for a while. Securing Captaincy ensured the Ton up was on the cards for Hogg, another one of his career goals I am sure, replacing him is really not that urgent. Still offers a lot , however not his fault but I wish the 100 caps celebration was not on the day we went for the triple crown.

          My current concern is who owns the bench 9 shirt. We have too many options including the forgotten Scott Steele. The fans have fallen out of love with Ali Price and everyone’s favourite George Horne appears to be isolated.

       2. Hogg has often come into the line as a second playmaker in some of Scotland’s phase play. I think Kinghorn’s time at 10, and evident threat from 5-10m out, actually means he can play this role far more effectively than a few years ago. Kinghorn could work on his kicking game although he does have a big boot on him – then he’ll be a complete FB.

          Still role for Hogg but he needs to get back to full fitness and recover his form otherwise Kinghorn will start in the RWC

45. Bite your tongue Bass. You ain’t going to win. He asks a question , no one knows the answer to , you politely say so and wish VC well , and you get accused of something, can’t make out what. But zipp it is my advice.

    The press say Cotter may be heading to France for anyone interested. No idea why ,so don’t ask, however if I were specuating , I woukd say “a new job”.

    That is likely to be contractual.

    1. Bass rock, I apologise if I came across as defensive and impolite. I usually try and steer clear of online forum spats and will think twice before reacting next time.

46. BryzzoWan78, splendid semantic usage ????

47. Leon Mc Donald anyone?

48. Dear Gregor

    Understand that it can be difficult to see clearly in the heat of battle, or the wood from the trees up close, or etc. etc…

    As such, while wishing you congrats on the 6 nations, here is a fan’s blueprint for your team against South Africa and Ireland (based on learning over the last two/three cycles). Pls wrap in cotton wool and do enough to get them to the championship:

    Schoeman, Turner, Fagerson/Nel
    R Gray, J Gray/Cummings,
    Fagerson/Ritchie, Ritchie/Darge, Dempsey.

    Replacements on the day must include: Darge/Dempsey/Crosbie (ie an impact player), Kebble, McInally/Ashman, Z Fagerson/Nel (ie reliable replacement front row, with a hooker that is confident throwing – tho surely Turner can do most the game?). Can accept arguments for reserving Dempsey as an impact sub at a push.

    White, Russell, DVM, Tui, Jones, Darcy, Hogg.

    Replacements on the day must include: Horne (ie an impact player), Kinghorn, Harris. Frankly the backline picks itself and Hogg is still one of the first on the team sheet.

    Other fans and media will have different ideas of course and while that is allowed don’t forget they are all wrong.

    Best wishes

    P.S. please don’t skimp on line out practice and restarts (giving and receiving) eh.

    1. As much as Steyn played well, the prospect of the backline with Graham is mouth-watering. The all-out attackers we’ve been dreaming of.

       Not sure if Mcinally or Ashman provide security on the bench. I’d take Ashman to the world cup but would have Cherry as the sub.

       1. That’s fair, think the second berth is wide open. Going to read the Scrummo article now…

49. 20min in and are Edinburgh bad! Kinghorn showing why he isn’t a 10 and his lackadaisical attitude

50. Abysmal by Edinburgh
    I despair at how long Kinghorn will be shoe horned into playing uncomfortably at 10 (it is really the real meaning of insanity).
    Edinburgh played their best when they ignored Kinghorn, then THAT interception ????

    1. I agree…..Kinghorn reminding just how much of a terrible idea it is to even consider him a backup option at 10.
       We’ll get absolutely hammered by Ireland and SA with him at 10 at RWC..and Id worry about our chances against Tonga and Romania too.

       1. Do you really think Kinghorn will be chosen at 10 for RWC.

       2. Weir is a better 10 than Kinghorn. A good organizer, and probably the best kicker in Scotland.

       3. Rees: yes I think he will be selected at 10

51. Edinburgh lose 41 – 26 need I say more

52. What an incredible 40 minutes from Glasgow. Absolutely top drawer. Even Brown’s darts have been straight.

    1. Hope they stayed focused on 2nd half

53. Vailanu was great but it was so good to see Darge playing really well. not so much the jackalling but his strength in the tackle, his counter rucking and just general break down nouse really slowed and disrupted Muster all match.

    1. Superb win and wonderful 1st half performance against a strong Munster team in their fortress.
       Vailanu was immense, Mioti finally showed what he’s about, his kicking crucial, Darge and McDowall were the pick of the Scottish boys.
       After the 1st half a reaction was expected but held on comfortably.
       A very motivated and very well coached team. I’m like Edinburgh.
       Finally I have to give a mention to the prize pair of Irish village idiot co-commentators.

       1. Aye the salty co commentators were hillarious. constantly talking about what Glasgow were getting away with. while ignoring the fact that muster were clearing players 5m past the rucks and half their team was ahead of the ball running obstruction lines and never getting penalised.

54. Were Glasgow great 1st Half or were Munster dire. I think Franco Smith Gave Glasgow the Mike Tyson adage, ‘Everyone has a plan till they get a punch in the mouth’. Glasgow got it’s punch in early, the crowd went mute. But second half Munster had a plan and Glasgow switched off IMO.

    I thought it was a mature decision to take the penalty between the sticks at 28 points. At 31 it was as good as lost for Munster. McDowall is proving himself as a captain.

    If any one wants to argue that Glasgow switched off second half , I wont disagree. They just needed to do the basics to win, they were already thinking of the next game

    Whatever , great coaching , to get so much from a team consisting of regulars, second string , Dobie on the wing and newbies like Alex Samuel. Well done Franco and the coaching staff, well done Glasgow.

55. I never enjoy watching Munster. I lost the respect as a consequence of the game after the unfortunate death of Foley. There was a lot of emotions came out that night and it was no place to play rugby. That wasn’t sport.

    In fact I take no pleasure in beating them either. Just do a job, win or lose , come home, take nothing to do with them, don’t even thank them for the game. Munster are just a team we have to play.